As I pointed out earlier many sellers insist that they will not replace/refund if the buyer doesn't take out insurance and I think this is fair enough. Of course it probably depends a great deal on just what you're selling - bone china is at more risk than bath-towels for instance.
If a buyer complains as you say Bartleby, and you pay them off rather than get a neg., you will at least bar that seller from bidding on your items again, presumably.
I can only speak for the field in which I operate. Perhaps there are more shifty characters in other peoples areas of interest. I can't believe there are enough buyers practising such shonky goings-on to make a severe dent in an honest sellers record, though.
What happens if we ALL decide not to post feedback first? The system breaks down and it's open slather for every dishonest operator out there! We'd all have to give it up.
GG
What cheeses me off, is even though I paid within seconds of the auction finishing, the seller gave me neutral feedback cos he said I didn't confirm my address (which I did) I paid through Paypal so this had my address, wot a plonker, he maintains he was right to give neutral, oh how I wish I gave his feedback after he gave mine.
That's incredible!
The only one who might be inconvenienced is yourself because delivery might be delayed.
Hasn't this prawn ever heard of email and good manners?
GG
The only one who might be inconvenienced is yourself because delivery might be delayed.
Hasn't this prawn ever heard of email and good manners?
GG
Maybe they meant your address wasn't confirmed with PayPal?
You *can* have an address that is Unconfirmed, but one of PayPals 'rules' is seller MUST ship to a confirmed address only.
At paypal go to My Account --> Profile
Click street address.
Is your address correct and status say confirmed?
You *can* have an address that is Unconfirmed, but one of PayPals 'rules' is seller MUST ship to a confirmed address only.
At paypal go to My Account --> Profile
Click street address.
Is your address correct and status say confirmed?
Personally, that would make me pretty mad if someone gave me a neg. over an unconfirmed. All the seller had to do was state he only sends to confirmed. I probably sell and ship to almost an equal amount of confirmed and unconfirmed. Out of nearly 1000 sales, I have never had a problem. However, it is not a big deal to confirm. A lot of unconfirmed are newbies to Ebay.
As for insurance, if it is offered in my item, then you refuse it, you are liable. On items that are not expensive and don't break, I only send with delivery confirmation.
The interesting part is that I used to send all items insured. A lot got "lost" in the mail. Since I stopped using insurance and started using delivery confirmation, I have not had a "loss"!!
As for insurance, if it is offered in my item, then you refuse it, you are liable. On items that are not expensive and don't break, I only send with delivery confirmation.
The interesting part is that I used to send all items insured. A lot got "lost" in the mail. Since I stopped using insurance and started using delivery confirmation, I have not had a "loss"!!
quote:(or even a neutral) I agree, but was just pointing out, it could have been a misunderstanding. If a buyer says 'I never got it' and item was sent to an unconfirmed address, the seller is on the hook.
that would make me pretty mad if someone gave me a neg. over an unconfirmed
I've sent to unconfirmed addresses too, but only because they had good feedback. (people do move) I also warned that others may not be so trusting, and they should get their address confirmed.
Thanks for that, Paypal states mt address as confirmed, makes me wonder what's going on!!
quote:
Originally posted by Puppy Raiser:
Maybe they meant your address wasn't confirmed with PayPal?
You *can* have an address that is Unconfirmed, but one of PayPals 'rules' is seller MUST ship to a confirmed address only.
At paypal go to My Account --> Profile
Click street address.
Is your address correct and status say confirmed?
What cheeses me off, is I have excellent feedback, so where was the problem? this plank has 3 feedbacks only, I wrote him a snotty letter, he defended himself even though his reply to the end of the auction was over a week, how pathetic........
quote:
Originally posted by Puppy Raiser:quote:(or even a neutral) I agree, but was just pointing out, it could have been a misunderstanding. If a buyer says 'I never got it' and item was sent to an unconfirmed address, the seller is on the hook.
that would make me pretty mad if someone gave me a neg. over an unconfirmed
I've sent to unconfirmed addresses too, but only because they had good feedback. (people do move) I also warned that others may not be so trusting, and they should get their address confirmed.
quote:Since your address HAS been confirmed, makes me wonder too.
makes me wonder what's going on!!
You should have bought from me instead of them!
Its a bit different down here is Aus. Its a buyers world, buyers complain loudly and often if there is ANY handling charge, buyers will NEG if you charge them $18 for postage and you spent $10 on packaging (to make sure your china arrives safely), but the postage stamp on the box only states $8.00.
I quote insurance, and have only had about 5 people out of just under 1000 take out insurance. I have taken it out myself on expensive items. Another difference over here is if you have *Proof of Postage*, our postal system will refund up to $50 without insurance. From what I have gathered from the Aus ebay boards, this encourages shonky buyers to claim lost/damaged items.
Why would I do that if they have 100% glowing feedback with paying on time? I am not to know its not an honest instance. I also dont quite agree with the term *pay them off*, I tend to believe the sad sob stories I get told and dont react well to threats of negs.
Sellers feedback wasnt my main concern, I was more referring to the fact that if a seller leaves feedback as soon as an item is paid - what happens if the deal goes sour once the item arrives/doesnt arrive?
Its NOT a stand-off, THATS where the problem lies, the buyer - if they pay on time, receive the goods, let the seller know the item has arrived.... SHOULD leave feedback then. What are they scared of? Why shouldnt they leave feedback, why would a seller NEG them when something like that happens?
IMO Its only when the deal goes wonky that the buyers dont want to leave feedback first. They are scared too because they havent fulfilled their part of the bargin correctly. Thats the only time they should be *scared* to leave feedback isnt it?
GG - why dont you leave feedback first, as a buyer? what stops you?
I sell 50 - 100 items per week, I ask my buyers to complete checkout as all the information they need it there, I send them an email letting them know that their payment has arrived and I have posted the item. I then explain my feedback arrangement and that ensures they contact me if they arent happy. It works.
Must get ready for work
quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
As I pointed out earlier many sellers insist that they will not replace/refund if the buyer doesn't take out insurance and I think this is fair enough.
I quote insurance, and have only had about 5 people out of just under 1000 take out insurance. I have taken it out myself on expensive items. Another difference over here is if you have *Proof of Postage*, our postal system will refund up to $50 without insurance. From what I have gathered from the Aus ebay boards, this encourages shonky buyers to claim lost/damaged items.
quote:
If a buyer complains as you say Bartleby, and you pay them off rather than get a neg., you will at least bar that seller from bidding on your items again, presumably.
Why would I do that if they have 100% glowing feedback with paying on time? I am not to know its not an honest instance. I also dont quite agree with the term *pay them off*, I tend to believe the sad sob stories I get told and dont react well to threats of negs.
quote:
Perhaps there are more shifty characters in other peoples areas of interest. I can't believe there are enough buyers practising such shonky goings-on to make a severe dent in an honest sellers record, though
Sellers feedback wasnt my main concern, I was more referring to the fact that if a seller leaves feedback as soon as an item is paid - what happens if the deal goes sour once the item arrives/doesnt arrive?
quote:
What happens if we ALL decide not to post feedback first? The system breaks down and it's open slather for every dishonest operator out there! We'd all have to give it up.
GG
Its NOT a stand-off, THATS where the problem lies, the buyer - if they pay on time, receive the goods, let the seller know the item has arrived.... SHOULD leave feedback then. What are they scared of? Why shouldnt they leave feedback, why would a seller NEG them when something like that happens?
IMO Its only when the deal goes wonky that the buyers dont want to leave feedback first. They are scared too because they havent fulfilled their part of the bargin correctly. Thats the only time they should be *scared* to leave feedback isnt it?
GG - why dont you leave feedback first, as a buyer? what stops you?
I sell 50 - 100 items per week, I ask my buyers to complete checkout as all the information they need it there, I send them an email letting them know that their payment has arrived and I have posted the item. I then explain my feedback arrangement and that ensures they contact me if they arent happy. It works.
Must get ready for work
quote:
Its a bit different down here is Aus. Its a buyers world, buyers complain loudly and often if there is ANY handling charge, buyers will NEG if you charge them $18 for postage and you spent $10 on packaging (to make sure your china arrives safely), but the postage stamp on the box only states $8.00.
That is one of the great things about our new online postage system through Ebay in the US. You can choose for the amount of postage paid NOT to show!
Bartleby, looks like we only agree to differ eh? I am in Australia (Melb). My one and only sale to Australia did go a bit sour but I mostly deal with England and the USA in selling and have always had good experiences with them.
I think the water's getting a little muddied here.
Let me state categorically that I nearly always post positive feedback immediately I receive the goods regardless of whether the seller has left feedback or not! As a seller I always provide feedback on payment.
The only exceptions are when there is a problem with the item, in which case I contact the seller immediately to discuss the situation. In many cases I don't even do that and just put it down to experience, accepting any loss. I'm currently holding only one in abeyance - I purchased a model kit described as MIB, which turned out to have a vital piece missing - hardly MIB. However I understand that people not familiar with such things can make honest mistakes and I have come to an amicable agreement with the seller which will see her paying for another one if I win it for the same price (or less). After that I expect to leave a positive for her.
I currently have only two other wins awaiting feedback - in both cases the goods are long overdue and I'm getting fidgety. At the same time I also have two items for which I've posted feedback and the sellers have not - one is over a month old!
NCXLightning's suggestion that the seller accepts all the risks is misleading. I pay in full immediately I receive advice as to the total amount - am I not taking a risk? I have had four occasions on which the goods never showed and all contact was ignored. At the moment my credit card supplier is chasing two of them to try and get my money back.
Incidentally, I have just come across a seller who advertises the fact that he will provide pos. feedback on payment! I can see this becoming a selling plus.
To a large extent eBay relies on trust - I think we are in danger of destroying that.
Who's next for the soapbox?
GG
quote:
GG - why dont you leave feedback first, as a buyer? what stops you?
I think the water's getting a little muddied here.
Let me state categorically that I nearly always post positive feedback immediately I receive the goods regardless of whether the seller has left feedback or not! As a seller I always provide feedback on payment.
The only exceptions are when there is a problem with the item, in which case I contact the seller immediately to discuss the situation. In many cases I don't even do that and just put it down to experience, accepting any loss. I'm currently holding only one in abeyance - I purchased a model kit described as MIB, which turned out to have a vital piece missing - hardly MIB. However I understand that people not familiar with such things can make honest mistakes and I have come to an amicable agreement with the seller which will see her paying for another one if I win it for the same price (or less). After that I expect to leave a positive for her.
I currently have only two other wins awaiting feedback - in both cases the goods are long overdue and I'm getting fidgety. At the same time I also have two items for which I've posted feedback and the sellers have not - one is over a month old!
NCXLightning's suggestion that the seller accepts all the risks is misleading. I pay in full immediately I receive advice as to the total amount - am I not taking a risk? I have had four occasions on which the goods never showed and all contact was ignored. At the moment my credit card supplier is chasing two of them to try and get my money back.
Incidentally, I have just come across a seller who advertises the fact that he will provide pos. feedback on payment! I can see this becoming a selling plus.
To a large extent eBay relies on trust - I think we are in danger of destroying that.
Who's next for the soapbox?
GG
Looks like no one else is willing to wade into this one 
I am about 2hrs North of you.
I buy and sell, and I understand your comments regarding risk. I did something silly myself yesterday, I bid and won a $300+ item from a seller with no feedback and 3 only sales that are *still in progress*. I only noticed the item when it had a couple of minutes to go and there hasnt been another of them sold in Australia before, so I didnt have time to look at the particulars. Luckily, this fella seems like a reasonable bloke and he is gonna send it COD.
We shall agree to disagree.
I am about 2hrs North of you.
I buy and sell, and I understand your comments regarding risk. I did something silly myself yesterday, I bid and won a $300+ item from a seller with no feedback and 3 only sales that are *still in progress*. I only noticed the item when it had a couple of minutes to go and there hasnt been another of them sold in Australia before, so I didnt have time to look at the particulars. Luckily, this fella seems like a reasonable bloke and he is gonna send it COD.
We shall agree to disagree.
quote:DEFINITELY.
by GG:
To a large extent eBay relies on trust - I think we are in danger of destroying that.
quote:Why do you automatically assume your buyer is going to take advantage of you? Why not have faith that your buyers will treat you as fair as you treated them. After all, items do arrive broke, or not at all. If the seller offered insurance and the buyer refused it, tough cookies. They took a chance and lost. They get no sympathy from me.
by Bartleby:
I DONT believe that a buyer has completed their end of the deal by just paying.
Will you as a seller be taken advantage of sometime, probably? Buyer's are taken advantage of occasionally as well. I am out $125.00 from a seller that promised a refund. He refused to answer emails and changed his ID, multiple times.
quote:the seller has the buyers money and the item. What is the seller's risk except the possibility of a negative, which may be deserved? I will take negative feedback any day over being cheated out of an item I paid for and never received.
by NCXLightning:
the seller assumes almost all of the risk
Like you say, We shall agree to disagree.
quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
I can see your point(s), I'm a seller too. But actually you've just proved my initial point.
I quote, " I have one neg feedback and thank goodness I was able to give him a neg as well."
This is exactly the kind of tit-for-tat use of feedback that destroys the spirit of the thing. It leads to the blackmail situation we've discussed, in other words, "Bad-mouth me and I'll do the same to you!".
Yes, the seller does take a risk, I said a few negs are almost inevitable and what's so bad about 97%? - it's never turned me off a seller.
Keep in mind that if you receive a negative you have the chance to comment on it and state your case there.
I sell, and I give a positive feedback immediatley on receipt of payment too. If I took the attitude that you propose it would take the fun out of dealing and the pleasure out of contact with people, which is a big part of the eBay experience.
GG
Please you may be in it for the fun and experience but I as well as a lot of other people are in it for the business (aka $$).
The feedback system is designed so people can make others look bad hey I know it is mean but that is what it is there for. If everybody was good then there would be no reason for feedback.
sure you can leave a comment but do you think that really matters to most people? What do you think the majority do sift through all the feedback to find the negs? No they quite simply see the % and deside. If by some odd chance the are more interested they will click the feedback thing and look at the chart at the top see some negs and make their decision. (there are exceptions but most just go by the two I assure you)
quote:
Originally posted by Skinny:
Lightning, I read your complete post. Are you filling in for Jabbarah? However, I think GG is absoultly right. I received an item today I forgot I bought. I won it 2 months ago. It came in a very small padded envelope. By paying within minutes of auctions end I fufilled the first part of my obligation to the seller, peroid. I deserve positive feedback so other seller's know I pay and pay quickly. I have been without the money I paid, without the item and without feedback for two months. I left him positive feedback, fufilling the final part of my obligation. Regardless of whether the seller leaves me feedback, I've played by the rules as I believe ebay intended. This seller obviously refused to abide by eBay and PayPal regulations regarding shipping times. Not all seller's or buyer's are honorable. It is very sad indeed when attitudes deterorate to the point of, I'll help you IF you help me. I don't believe a seller needs to be concerned about poor feedback if he/she is selling a ligit item, it is as described, has good communication with the buyer and ships on time.
no offence but you are talking about something totaly different than what I am. I simply said the buyer should leave feedback first, not the seller shouldn't leave feedback at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:quote:
If your a buyer and go looking for something to buy and there are a tun of them going for around the same price and you have a choise of buying from a person with 100% and a person with 98% who do you buy from? It is obvious that the seller can lose money from negative feedback.
Just one additional comment;
I would buy a: from the one who accepted Paypal, b: the one whose item seemed the best quality and/or value, and c: the one with the best description/picture so I know what I'm getting.
To be honest, I rarely, if ever, check a sellers feedback before bidding and I've never regretted it.
GG
Of course there are other factors to cosider when buying and thank you for nitpicking an obvious point... if everything was the exact same most people would buy from the best seller wich is reflected (Idealy) in the feedback. Just think if the seller had gotten the neg withen the last 6 months and that dreaded red 1 showed up on the chart of the feedback page (there would be little question who would most likely get the bid then).
but yet you are worried about getting feedback? Something not quite clicking there. The reality is you know people do check feedback and that is why you want it. The fact that you don't check feedback is irrelevant after that don't you think?
quote:No offense taken... I was only (trying) to say the seller should leave it first. Have more faith in your buyer's Lightning, you might be pleasantly surprised.
by NCXLightning:
no offence but you are talking about something totaly different than what I am. I simply said the buyer should leave feedback first, not the seller shouldn't leave feedback at all.
quote:
Why do you automatically assume your buyer is going to take advantage of you? Why not have faith that your buyers will treat you as fair as you treated them. After all, items do arrive broke, or not at all. If the seller offered insurance and the buyer refused it, tough cookies. They took a chance and lost. They get no sympathy from me.
Basically you say the seller shouldn't be worried about getting shafted yet you have no sympathy for a buyer who takes the risk. Does this make sence to you? Give them the power to hurt the seller yet don't allow the seller the right to comment?
Why do you assume the buyer will be just? Do you realy think buyers are never off? I hate to inform you but there are a tun of buyers out there that simplly don't know how to buy. These buyers simply don't know the system, a bad feedback to them could simply mean the item wasn't as black as the picture showed (we know that a monitor can easily change looks on colors). This kind of ignorance needs some kind of check and balence so the buyer might e-mail the seller before doing anything rash (and eve then there is a risk if the seller can't make the buyer understand but you can't win them all).
Oh ya I'm not filling in for Jabbarah... I'm guessing he is a regular here.
sorry about the amount of posts I was just responing as I read them. (I'm short on time or else I would put them all together)
Jabber was known for his lengthy posts but hasn't been around for a while.
My 2 cents.
I'm going to try and walk the middle of the road on this one.
As a seller, I try to leave feedback when paid if the buyer has been around for a while, has good feedback, and knows how the game is played. For someone with little or no feedback, or even if I only get that 'funny feeling', no, I wait to make sure they are happy first. (I only sell good stuff)
As a buyer, I don't care. When I get the item, if I like it and am happy, I leave feedback. There is no reason to fear a negative if they got paid and I'm happy. If I haven't gotten any from them yet, I send a very short email. 'Item ####### recieved, feedback left, Thank you.'
Feedback *IS* more important to a seller. If I hold an item till it's paid for, why should it matter to me what a buyers feedback is? (Unless it's really really bad or hidden then I'll delete a bid and block). 97% for a seller isn't very good IMO. I don't need 100%, but try to stick with those above 99. If their feedback is in the thousands, it needs to be higher than that.
One of my last sales, a note was sent. 'Item shipped... yadda yadda... will leave feedback once recieved and know you are happy. 3 weeks later, no word. I decided he must be happy. Left feedback (no email) and feedback was returned the following day. Another time received an email. 'item received, I AM happy' (but no feedback). IMO both were silly.
My 2 cents.
I'm going to try and walk the middle of the road on this one.
As a seller, I try to leave feedback when paid if the buyer has been around for a while, has good feedback, and knows how the game is played. For someone with little or no feedback, or even if I only get that 'funny feeling', no, I wait to make sure they are happy first. (I only sell good stuff
) As a buyer, I don't care. When I get the item, if I like it and am happy, I leave feedback. There is no reason to fear a negative if they got paid and I'm happy. If I haven't gotten any from them yet, I send a very short email. 'Item ####### recieved, feedback left, Thank you.'
Feedback *IS* more important to a seller. If I hold an item till it's paid for, why should it matter to me what a buyers feedback is? (Unless it's really really bad or hidden then I'll delete a bid and block). 97% for a seller isn't very good IMO. I don't need 100%, but try to stick with those above 99. If their feedback is in the thousands, it needs to be higher than that.
One of my last sales, a note was sent. 'Item shipped... yadda yadda... will leave feedback once recieved and know you are happy. 3 weeks later, no word. I decided he must be happy. Left feedback (no email) and feedback was returned the following day. Another time received an email. 'item received, I AM happy' (but no feedback). IMO both were silly.
NCXLightning;
Quote "Please you may be in it for the fun and experience but I as well as a lot of other people are in it for the business (aka $$)." unquote.
I need the money as much as the next person, that doesn't mean I shouldn't enjoy the interaction with other people, does it?
Quote; "but yet you are worried about getting feedback? Something not quite clicking there. The reality is you know people do check feedback and that is why you want it. The fact that you don't check feedback is irrelevant after that don't you think?" unquote
My original idea for this discussion was not WHETHER a seller gives feedback or not, but WHEN, and the possible corruption of the system inherent in that.
NCXLightning; Unfortunately I find your third sentence above rather offensive. You are accusing me of hypocrisy. That has no place in this forum, please desist.
This has been an interesting and lively discussion and I'm pleased to have started it. We've had a stimulating exchange of ideas, but I think it's now in danger of becoming bogged down in a slanging match and I am not posting further on the subject.
Thank you to everybody who contributed.
GG
Quote "Please you may be in it for the fun and experience but I as well as a lot of other people are in it for the business (aka $$)." unquote.
I need the money as much as the next person, that doesn't mean I shouldn't enjoy the interaction with other people, does it?
Quote; "but yet you are worried about getting feedback? Something not quite clicking there. The reality is you know people do check feedback and that is why you want it. The fact that you don't check feedback is irrelevant after that don't you think?" unquote
My original idea for this discussion was not WHETHER a seller gives feedback or not, but WHEN, and the possible corruption of the system inherent in that.
NCXLightning; Unfortunately I find your third sentence above rather offensive. You are accusing me of hypocrisy. That has no place in this forum, please desist.
This has been an interesting and lively discussion and I'm pleased to have started it. We've had a stimulating exchange of ideas, but I think it's now in danger of becoming bogged down in a slanging match and I am not posting further on the subject.
Thank you to everybody who contributed.
GG
Who says my posts are long?!?
sometimes lengthy...
but always eloquent.
but always eloquent.
quote:
NCXLightning; Unfortunately I find your third sentence above rather offensive. You are accusing me of hypocrisy. That has no place in this forum, please desist.
GG
I stand by my statement, but I do agree I might be too abrupt on this forum. I'm too used to a certain forum that has nothing to do with e-bay, and when debatable topics come up it is a bit heated.
I apoligise if I have offended anyone, that wasn't my intention, I will be less forward in the future.