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90 replies

Am I the Only One Who Hates How eBay Pushes PayPal?

G geeklineMember
I dont accept PayPal from my customers. I hate PayPal after the little stunt they pulled on me back when they were x.com - they locked my account with a little less than a hundred bucks because I got into with one of thier CSRs over an issue and I got nastier than I should have.

Am I the only one who hates how eBay keeps cramming PayPal down every seller's throat? Nearly every e-mail from them says something about buying with PayPal or accepting it. The sellers page asks you to accept PayPal and then if you dont, when you get your listing confirmation it tells you that you should accept it because three out of four buyers perfer it.

I am wondering if eBay will eventually REQUIRE sellers to accept PayPal to sell on thier site. I am sure there will be some BS about community security used as the excuse (kinda like how our president uses terrorism as an excuse to take our civil rights) for doing such a crazy thing.

What do you all think? Do you think they'll ever make it a requirement that sellers accept PayPal?
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puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
quote:
Do you think they'll ever make it a requirement that sellers accept PayPal?
No, I don't. However I AM one of the three of four that prefer it. It's so fast and easy.

You can accept payments free, if your account isn't set up for credit cards. Once you 'upgrade' you're charged for ALL payments even without credit. To me, that's not fair. Many have two accounts, one for credit, and the other for transfers without the fee.

C chatterMember
quote:
Originally posted by geekline:
I dont accept PayPal from my customers. I hate PayPal after the little stunt they pulled on me back when they were x.com - they locked my account with a little less than a hundred bucks because I got into with one of thier CSRs over an issue and I got nastier than I should have.

Am I the only one who hates how eBay keeps cramming PayPal down every seller's throat?



Sure seems that way.

You were nasty? Now that comes as an absolute surprise to me. Roll Eyes
S shirleyMember
(*with VERY rare exceptions)

Paypal is convenient, secure, and it gives me a third-party record of the charges to my account and the payment made. It also gives me the option to take back a payment that isn't claimed by the seller, or to reverse a transaction if there's an error. I can pay instantly, get a record that the payment was sent, and often the item gets shipped within a day or two of the auction close. I generally receive the items I bid on within a week of auction-close -- the record is 3 days, and that was a Texas to Michigan shipment by regular US mail. I've used them for about 100 transactions, and I've NEVER had a problem.

Also, once upon a time I upgraded my account so I could get a payment from a friend's credit card, and since then I have received payments once or twice that were from bank accounts and DIDN'T get charged a fee. Maybe it's because I don't RECEIVE very many payments, but I thought you only got charged if the money came from a credit card?
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M moryMember
I am only a buyer 1. I snipe - 2, Pay only with Pay Pal. 3. won't buy from anyone with BIN listed. 4. or anyone charging more than actual cost of freight. 5. If Fragile I offer seller $5 to $10 depending on size to double box it. 6. I pay by Pay Pal within 10 minutes of closing. 7. Pay Pay Pal with my AA Checking Account,debit card. This gives me many + free yes totaly FREE
Airline Miles - Last year I went to Rome " FREE" for a week and This year I am headed for Australia. If I pay the card in 30 days I still get the miles and have no intrerest.(They plan on your not paying
MY PET PEEVE WITH PAY PAL IS THEY KEEP ASKING FOR ME TO RECONSIDER USING MY CREDIT CARD. THEY WANT TO CHARGE MY CHECKING ACOUNT DIRECTLY - OF COURSE, THEY LOSE THE CREDIT CARD COMMISSION AND $ FLOAT. iT ADDS UP TO MILLIONS FOR THEM. BEFORE E-BAY BOUGHT PAY PAL
IT DIDN'T TAKE FOUR PAGES TO MAKE A PAYMENT.

[This message was edited by Mory on January 27, 2004 at 11:55 AM.]
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S shirleyMember
I didn't know that about downgrading my account, but that might be useful. Yes, the payment policy was written that way when I upgraded my account as well, so it looked like I would be charged regardless, but (if I remember correctly) I tried it anyway and didn't get charged. But it only happened once or twice, so I might just be remembering wrong. Or dreaming...

A couple of days ago I dreamed that I was sitting at work with a coworker, discussing what time I should get out of bed to make it to work on time. She told me to turn off the alarm and go back to sleep. So I did. I was late to work that day...
bartelbybartelbyMember
quote:
A couple of days ago I dreamed that I was sitting at work with a coworker, discussing what time I should get out of bed to make it to work on time. She told me to turn off the alarm and go back to sleep. So I did. I was late to work that day...

ROFL!!!! I am sooo glad that I am not the only one that does such things, although I dont need an alarm clock any more, I have one of those non battery powered ones that start singing "Mum, Mum, Mum" every morning.

Oh and Mory, I will be interested in the answer to #3 too, as it is s'posably unanswerable Smile

Lexie

"If you read - you will judge!"
M moryMember
Puppy your getting ME into HOT WATER i CAN FEEL IT COMING... ok..
a BIN SAYS TO ME... professional - volume seller. I often pay more for the same item
from someone I THINK is an individual. and I also pass on anyone showing "Power Seller"

WHY WHY WHY WEEEEEELLLL
HERE COMES THE RUB......

I HAVE FOUND - YES I HAVE FOUND THAT
INDIVIDUALS 'PACK' Their items carefully7

My last snipe was a battery - carefully double packed by a individual. I had to buy it for $40
to replace the one broken (just dropped in a carton_ by a Power Seller) At Christmas I bought
300 CD's from a Power seller - there was a lot of needless damage...In December. A beautiful Porcelain Vase arrived floating broken in a few newspapers ..I am convinced
an individual would not have done that.

OK Sellers I know this isn't YOU....but this is my buying criteria....I really haven't the time to submit claims and return merchandise - It really takes all the fun out of this......
My PEEVE with individuals (just happened) - ctn with no return address - In RED - fragile THIS Side UP - Camera inside ,,But I got it..mory
B bjones9942Member
The BIN feature doesn't mean, 'professional eBay seller' to me, but rather, 'this is what I want for this item, but I'll take less if no one snatches it up'.

I use BIN frequently - even to the point where I will display the auctions by 'newest' just to grab it first if someone posts a BIN auction with a low BIN $

Shoddy packaging comes from all sorts of people - that's what looking at feedbacks is for Smile Oh, and I too offer to pay extra to double box items I'm especially afraid of breaking during transit.

Mother Mary Says, 'HONESTLY! you're just ruint!'
S supersqueakyMember
There's another good reason to use Paypal apart from the ones mentioned. Because I'm in the UK and often buy from the US, I always use Paypal for these - getting a cheque in dollars is expensive and time consuming.

With Paypal I just click and it takes the right amount of money out of my account - instant!

If it wasn't for Paypal I wouldn't use eBay very much (which would be sad, because it gives me a great deal of fun!)

SS
J jlr43Member
I'm an individual seller and I've listed BIN auctions when I want to sell an item and I want to sell it quick. I also do it if I know I won't get much more than x-amount for it and don't want to wait a week for someone to nibble at it.

quote:
I don't bid on auctions that don't accept Paypal.


I also prefer to bid on auctions that accept Paypal. I will not bid if it's a small amount and I have to buy a money order to pay for it. If they don't accept Paypal but they will accept a personal check I'll bid if I'm not in a hurry for the item. I have my L.L. Bean credit card attached to my Paypal account. Whenever possible, that's what I use for my ebay purchases because I earn points on my card. For every so-much spent, I earn a $10 coupon towards L.L. Bean. I like Paypal because it's instant and it **usually** means my item will be shipped within a day or two of receipt of payment. I say usually because there's the occasional seller who still feels the need to wait for a credit card payment to clear (?). Don't ask. That was a seller from hell who did that to me. lol

I haven't noticed ebay shoving Paypal down my throat. Then again, since I have it and I use it often maybe I don't get the advertisements like the original poster does.
S shirleyMember
Don't worry, geekline, you're not so much of an oddball. I see auctions all the time with notes from the seller saying "I do NOT accept Paypal".

I'm always tempted to email them and tell them they've just lost my bid (whether I was really planning to bid or not), because I doubt they realize that bidders will actually go away over something like that. But then, chances are they've got very good reasons for their opinion, so why bother? Paypal certainly doesn't pay me to be their ambassador...
J jabbergahMember
Shirley posted:
quote:
I see auctions all the time with notes from the seller saying "I do NOT accept Paypal".

I'm always tempted to email them...

I did just that on an item LIKE one I'm thinking of listing. The item is an OLD electric guitar, current bid at $1000 plus. I didn't tell the seller why I was asking or that I really wasn't interested in bidding, I just asked why no PayPal? He said since the item was big ticket, he didn't want to pay the big resulting PayPal fee.

I'm inclined to allow PayPal, even for the big ticket items...unless someone on here would like to convince me otherwise? Wink

Jabbergah                                                    
S shirleyMember
If it were me, I would DEFINITELY want to have the protection of Paypal or someone else on a transaction that big. Just raise your minimum bid to compensate for the fee! That's what your friendly neighborhood grocery store/gas station/department store does!

Just don't try tacking on a fee for ONLY Paypal users -- that's not legal, the way I hear it.
mrsmmrsmMember
Well, I take paypal for about everything except items that are over 1000 dollars. Part of it is the fee that is incured and part of it is that I prefer to have cash in hand or cashier's check for something that expensive that some one could buy,take, destroy, and then try any kind of chargeback. I took paypal on the first camper I ever sold, for the deposit. The person ended up not having any money in her account. It was a hassle to relist, get my money back from the auction, etc. It was the last and only time. I cannot say it had ever hurt any of my auctions and I have sold many items in the thousands. Smile

puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
I don't accept credit cards, but even if I did, I'd be MORE likely to accept PayPal on big ticket items. I want my money fast for less chance of bidder changing his/her mind!

Also I toss in free shipping (or very low) for the big bucks. You might be amazed how people will bid $20 extra to save $10 in shipping. That's especially true if there are several auctions from different sellers. Most of my items are small and the cost is insurance.

(edit)... Didn't think about what Mrs.M just posted though... Hmmmm....

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rickrickMember
Increasing the price of an item to compensate for potential credit card charges will work on something that has a fixed cost/price, such as the items sold by the retail businesses listed in the prior post. I don't see how increasing the starting bid would accomplish the same thing for most auctions. I understand that if the auction has only 1 bidder (or "maybe" 2) then a starting bid of $11.99 instead of $9.99 would cover the fee (or what ever it takes).

Put another way - Two different auctions:

#1) Has a starting price of $9.99 but doesn't accept Paypal. Closing price $100.

#2) Has a starting price of $11.99 but does accept Paypal. Closing price is $100.

However you slice it, seller #1 made more money because they don't have a Paypal fee. Now, #2 will probably get more bids, at least he'll get mine, and his cash flow is better (if that's important).

I'm like most everyone else - I won't do a money order unless it's something very rare, but that's very rare.
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mrsmmrsmMember
Yes, you are correct, I think about the fees, Rick. I do accept checks or money order, if they want on smaller items and have a lot of people that do use that method. Personally, not because of any protection ( because I think it is like pulling teeth),but because of the speed and convenience, I prefer paypal for small items I buy. Larger items, well, must tell you, I get in my truck and go to where ever and look at the item and pay for it. Yes, that IS what I do. I don't spend large sums, site unseen. Everything looks good in a picture!! Smile

C chatterMember
quote:
Originally posted by Jabbergah:

I didn't tell the seller why I was asking or that I really wasn't interested in bidding, I just asked why no PayPal? He said since the item was big ticket, he didn't want to pay the big resulting PayPal fee.


IMHO, in many cases, this is being penny-wise but pound foolish. They end up missing a huge number of potential bidders, whose increased bid amounts would more than make up for any fees. They also miss out on the added protection for both buyer AND seller. Frown
G geeklineMember
quote:
Originally posted by Shirley:
Don't worry, geekline, you're not so much of an oddball. I see auctions all the time with notes from the seller saying "I do NOT accept Paypal".


Yeah, as do I. Only in my auction listings, when I stated that I didnt accept PayPal I would still get people e-mailing me all the time asking me to take PayPal or to join PayPal. So I went a step further and began posting that anyone who asks me to take PayPal will automatically get negative feedback. (The feedback is deserved - because I state like three times in my listings no PayPal and if someone asks me to take PayPal even after that, they obviously havent read the auction description or chose to ignore it as the case may be). Ironicly, the e-mails stopped. Smile

Funny you all mention people e-mailing sellers and telling them "you just lost my bid" because I just got a nastygram from someone saying that and a few other things. It might have been someone on here but I dont really care. I hope they felt better after they were dont ranting and raving. LOL

I take personal checks, money orders, cash and credit cards through another third-party processor. I dont hold personal checks, either - and thus far (knock on wood) I havent gotten any of them back marked "NSF", "Account Closed" or "Refer to Maker".

I supppose that is probably due to the rather extensive terms I put into my listings... see a sample at the link below.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&&item=2456084025
G geeklineMember
Also... I see that the listings pages are now cluttered up with little "PP" logos to denote items by which the seller accepts PayPal. They should include a search that allows a user to see only items that are sold by customers NOT accepting PayPal... and there should be a little "PP" with the no-smoking symbol thing through it too. Fair is fair...
bartelbybartelbyMember



quote:
If you don't agree to any of these terms or are too stupid to follow them, then please just don't bid. There are plenty of sellers who will put up with your bull but I will not. I just want to part out my Eagle and sell off some stuff around here to raise some money to fund the restoration to my new Eagle. I have no desire to play collection agent with people. I quit that job because I hated it. I hope that this is understood. This is a binding contract and it will hold up in court - don't make me enforce it.


Love your terms geekline. You have such a way with words Razz

Lexie

"If you read - you will judge!"
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mrsmmrsmMember
To answer my own question, this is from the Ebay Feedback forum:
quote:


This question has 1 reply on 1 page
Feedback, neg, in auction listing
Posted: January 29, 2004 10:32 AM


Is it against Ebay rules to say that if you do not do thus and thus when you win my auction, I will leave you negative feedback? (On the seller's auction page)



Re: Feedback, neg, in auction listing
Posted: January 29, 2004 10:54 AM
doorbell70 (44) (view author's auctions) Posts: 3236

Is it against the rules? No

In my opinion it is pretty stupid though. If I saw an auction where the seller was focused on negative feedback for whatever perceived potential infractions, or set up many conditions that could lead to negative feedback - well, I just wouldn't bid. Even if I knew I could comply with the seller's terms, it probably wouldn't be worth risking.





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S shirleyMember
I agree with the last dozen or so posts. Sorry to pick on you geekline, but auction terms like that turn me off faster than bad photos do. I don't expect sellers to let me dictate terms or to "put up with my bull", but I do expect them to be polite, and to respect their customers. I understand that sellers deal with a lot of trolls, but assuming from the start that your customer is a troll is just setting yourself up for it. "The best defense is a good offense"? Not in Customer Service. Sorry.

Of course, on the other hand, it's your auction, your terms, your right to write them however you like. My right to disagree, and my right NOT to bid. I'd be curious, though, to see if your average sales price or bids-per-view went down after you added those terms.
I idratherbeshoppingMember
I for one prefer Pay Pal. Good example. I won an auction the other day for an gizmo where they only accept money orders type. Well, we immeditatly got snowed in. I can not get to the post office to get the @#$%* money order. Now the seller is upset, I am upset. I refuse to walk a mile in 0 to-12 degree weather with a wind chill factor below that, in deep snow. If that seller would take Pay Pal, they would have long since got their $$$$.
I am on the verge of only buying from sellers that take Pay Pal... Roll Eyes

"Shop" and My Snipes
G geeklineMember
I have found that while the terms might turn some people off - the people that DO bid always follow through and they dont play games. I guess I intentionally scare some of my bidders off. But I do have a very high percentage of repeat business or multiple auction winners which is nice because you get to send all thier goodies in one box.

Dealing with non-paying bidders is a pain anymore since eBay makes you go through all kinds of crap to get your fees back from them. Half the time I forget to go back and request the return of the fees and the sometimes when I do go back and do it I have wait first send them a reminder, wait 3 days, then send a warning, wait another 10 days and then finally I can get my money back.

To whomeever said something about bad pictures, I thought my pictures were pretty good, actually. What could I do better? There are only so many angles to take a picture of a book...
puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
Hi geekline, You're right about the pain in the back side for account credit, but I find the 'Stuck in Limbo' much more annoying.

quote:
Shirley:
but auction terms like that turn me off faster than bad photos do.
I didn't read that the same way you did. She didn't mean YOU have bad pics.

Looking at your feedback tells me you're an easy to get along with person, but the auction listing is what people see first. You make a bad first impression. (just my opinion)

Best of Luck to ya.

S shirleyMember
No, I wasn't commenting on YOUR pictures. I only looked at one of your auctions, and the picture was fine. But I'm constantly amazed at OTHER people's auctions -- like when they zoom in for a closeup to catch the detail, but the picture is so blurry you can't make it out. Or when the picture is so dark, or so small, that you almost can't SEE the item you're supposed to be bidding on. Why bother? Of course, IMHO, even a bad picture is worse than NO picture at all... most of the time...

And if you're happy with scaring off bidders by your auction terms, then obviously you're more interested in selling at YOUR terms than in getting the highest bid possible. Nothing wrong with that -- I can respect that!
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G geeklineMember
quote:
Originally posted by Puppy Raiser:
Also I toss in free shipping (or very low) for the big bucks. You might be amazed how people will bid $20 extra to save $10 in shipping. That's especially true if there are several auctions from different sellers. Most of my items are small and the cost is insurance.


Very true. Most buyers on eBay allow themselves to be sucked in by that. Its like the store that advertises a buy one get one free sale in Sunday paper but has employees stay all night Saturday marking everything up by exactly 100%.

Most of my items are small as well. Thats why I like to ship with Airborne Ground - they are cheaper than both UPS and FedEx (much less of a pain in the ass than UPS too, I might add) and they include $100 of insurance for free on every package. So I turn around and tell all of my customers that packages are insured at my expense. That makes them think they are getting a freebie.

On larger items, I either self insure or buy the extra coverage out of my own pocket (come on, its only $0.60 per $100 or something like that).

A friend of mine owns a MBE-type store. It was an MBE but when UPS took over he severed his francise and went out on his own. Anyway, a customer once shipped some ancient vase worth several thousand dollars to an eBay buyer.

Well, being the cheap ass that he was, he only put five hundred bucks of insurance on it instead of insuring it for the replacement value (which was like 10 grand or something - I dont know exactly). But anyway, the carrier lost the vase and this guy was really mad about it.

So the lesson is don't be a cheapskate because sooner or later it will backfire on you.
G geeklineMember
quote:
Originally posted by Shirley:
No, I wasn't commenting on YOUR pictures. I only looked at one of your auctions, and the picture was fine. But I'm constantly amazed at OTHER people's auctions -- like when they zoom in for a closeup to catch the detail, but the picture is so blurry you can't make it out. Or when the picture is so dark, or so small, that you almost can't SEE the item you're supposed to be bidding on. Why bother? Of course, IMHO, even a bad picture is worse than NO picture at all... most of the time...

And if you're happy with scaring off bidders by your auction terms, then obviously you're more interested in selling at YOUR terms than in getting the highest bid possible. Nothing wrong with that -- I can respect that!


My bad, looks like I misunderstood you. Oh yes, I see bad pictures all the time. I espically like the ones taken with cheap cameras that are meant to be used as webcams. The ones that have the colors all out of whack - i.e. everything has a red or green tint to it. LOL. Smile

Most of my items are small and the bidding goes in $0.50 or $0.25 incriments. The way I see it, getting an extra $0.50 on the ending bid price really inst worth it if I have to extract the payment out of people. If I was selling cars or something where another couple bids might mean several hundred additional bucks, I would probably be much more of a suckup.

I guess everyone has thier own selling style - some people are after the all mighty dollar and are willing to work for it. Call me lazy - I just wanna cash the checks and be done with it. Smile
G geeklineMember
quote:
Originally posted by ShoptillIdrop:
Hi Rick, Yes if you send the tracking number, Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee
(with sugar on it) include the item and number. Your item is not always the only on the buyer just bought at auction. Keep in mind also, that your email name/address may not be anything like your ebay sales name. Wink Wink Wink

http://www.cpl.net/assets/images/buzzard.gif http://ladish.wz.cz/AN041.GIF "Shop" and My Snipes


Is another reason why I like 2CheckOut so much. When you ship the item, you have to sign into the admin panel and mark it as shipped in order to be paid for the item. (You cannot bill a CC before the item is shipped or will be shipped within 24 hours according to Visa/MC regs).

There is a spot to record the carrier, the tracking number and a check box if you want to notify the buyer that thier order has shipped - the system will send the customer a form mail telling them that it has been shipped, the carrier used and the tracking number and that e-mail includes the auction number.

But what is really nice is how they record it forever in the order history database - which is nice when the customer comes back in 3 months with a chargeback stating they never got it - all you have to do is sign in and research the order and pull the tracking number up. This way you dont have to keep track of hundreds or even thousands of little delivery/signature confirmation reciepts from the post office, or pour over your UPS/Airborne/FedEx statements, because all of those companies purge your shipping history after several weeks.
G geeklineMember
quote:
Originally posted by Rick:
Sellers,

One more small, tiny, little favor - on the shipping boxes/envelopes that have that strip that can be pulled to open the box/envelope; please don't cover that strip with shipping tape.


I cover those strips with tamper proof tape all the time. Not only does it prevent dirt or mosisture from getting into the box on the sides and it keeps those strips from breaking open but it also discourages people from tampering with the package.
S shirleyMember
quote:
Originally posted by Rick:
quote:
Originally posted by geekline:
but it also discourages people from tampering with the package.

It definitely discourages me from even opening it.


Hey, Rick, wanna borrow a utility knife? Personally, I prefer to open the packages. Especially since I usually paid a bit less for the shipping than I did for what's inside...

And having been on the receiving end of packages that got "caught in automated mail processing machinery", I appreciate the precaution!

But I agree about sending the tracking numbers. don't know how many times I've emailed a seller to say "hey, I Paypal'd you more than a week ago, and you never responded -- did you get the payment, and when was the widget shipped?"

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mrsmmrsmMember
I am posting this again incase someone misses this from Sara:
quote:
posted February 06, 2004 06:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometime between 10:30pm and 11:30pm we'll be taking the site down for about 15 minutes to make an upgrade to a server.

All snipes will be placed, however they may be placed up to 20 minutes early during that time.

That gives us enough time to pull the server out of the colo facility rack, open it, make the changes, and then insert it back in and reboot the server.

I'll try and post here again in advance of the change, then again when it's complete.


G geeklineMember
quote:
Originally posted by Mrs.M:
I am posting this again incase someone misses this from Sara:
quote:
posted February 06, 2004 06:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometime between 10:30pm and 11:30pm we'll be taking the site down for about 15 minutes to make an upgrade to a server.

All snipes will be placed, however they may be placed up to 20 minutes early during that time.

That gives us enough time to pull the server out of the colo facility rack, open it, make the changes, and then insert it back in and reboot the server.

I'll try and post here again in advance of the change, then again when it's complete.


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/421255/grandma123.gif http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/421255/Mrs123.gif


My lord. Have they ever considered load balancing across an array of servers?

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