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Five snipes placed 38 minutes early

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S sumsheepMember
Hi again, I am in Australia so yes the time does correspond with AS down time. What a bugger. I missed out on some good stuff. I will have to remember in future not to use it on our Friday nights. Never mind it was not meant to be. Sorry I should have said Hi to everyone before but I was pretty annoyed at AS and this is my first time. Venting my anger.
Cheers.
puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
That's not quite how I read it. I think what some are looking for is a warning. Either as snipe is entered, or via email:

Your auction ends durring scheduled 1-3 Friday morning maintenance. AS will be down, and/or eBay will be intermitently down. Since eBay may or may not be able to accept bids durring this time, your bid will be sent at 12:59 AM eBay.com time.

Big Grin Have those programers stop playing cards and get to work.
...and YES I'm joking with you a little.
S sumsheepMember
I agree, why can't the bidder be alerted to the fact that the snipe will be placed eary due to down time. Perhaps it is because they won't place the snipe!!!!! Sneaky.
I sent a query to AS and the response was "quote" We do this if eBay servers are running slow. We monitor how long it is taking them to accept bids. If they are running slowly we put in the bids that much in advance. If their servers then speed back up your bid goes in early. "unquote" - 38 minutes too early. What do you think of that answer?
S snipersarabAuctionSniper Support
I think the support person in question probably thought you meant 38 seconds. Obvisiouly they are wrong and I am right.

quote:
***Scheduled Maintenance for July 2nd***
Date: 07/01/04 Time: 10:22:55 AM PDT


The eBay system will be undergoing maintenance from approximately 01:00 to 03:00 PT on Friday, July 2nd. During this maintenance period, certain eBay site features may be intermittently unavailable or slow.

Regards,
eBay
Message Address: http://www2.ebay.com:80/aw/announce.shtml#2004-07-01101907
bartelbybartelbyMember
quote:
Originally posted by Sniper Sara B.:
eBay did maintenance last night from 1am-3am.
We thus place bids around 12:59am.

Or would you rather us place them from 1am-3am and eBay not get them since they are down?


Sara - to back up R2's request. OUR Ebay (.com.au) still functions whilst the ever important .com is down for maintenance. So, your comment above is irrevelant to R2, GG, Sheepie and myself (plus numerous other non Yank users). We can still bid on our ebay sites and do whilst AS is down. Its quite inconvenient to have to try and calculate whether my aussie bids are going to fall in the danger zone or not.

Can you please tell us why is it such a big deal to have a warning?
region2region2Member
When I asked about the Warning, why it was not in place and when it might 'happen', this is what I got:
quote:
because we're working on other more important things. eBay and us have
been down from 1am-3am for years and years.

They're placed at 12:59 am because at 1:37am eBay could be
down. Even if eBay was up at 1:36:59 it could be down 1 second
later. It is not safe to place any bid between 1am and 3am. If eBay
happens to be up and a manual bidder snipes then that's lucky for them.

I'm not going to lie and say we're working on it and it'll be ready in a week.
Fact is it won't be. We do know about it, I'd love to see it addressed, maybe in a month. It's summer 4 people are out on vacation right now. Everyone
else have bigger fish to fry. The person I'd assign to do this wont be back for 2 weeks.
When he gets back he'll have way more important things to fix. So 4 weeks would be the earliest.
Are s/he and Sara related? Frown

R2
P pallbearerMember
Is it really that difficult or time consuming to issue users a notification of down time giving them the option of letting a bid being placed too early or not? This thread just really highlights the complete lack of faith and communication AS has with its current customer base. I believe the practice of placing bids early for whatever reason is just an illustration of how AS will manipulate the bid to ensure a win and thus ensure payment. AS should tell the user ebay/AS may or may not be down and give them the choice to place the automatic snipe. If the customer comes here crying after given that choice point them to your CURRENT literature that clearly states there are risks involved. AS currently has NO OFFICIAL WRITTEN LITERATURE stating that it manipulates bid-lead times based of 'potential' down-times and high traffic forecasts. It needs to be in AS guides and FAQ. If you did, then there wouldn't be this problem.

From the FAQ:
quote:
42. How can I snipe when you go down for maintenance? When do you go down for maintenance?

Our maintenance is the same as eBay: 1 to 3 a.m. on Friday mornings. Your snipe wouldn't have gone through anyway. You can’t bid when eBay is down.


I notice there is very little here regarding time zones (for international customers) & and a potential for placing bids up to two hours early. Why is that information missing?

PB
puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
quote:
I believe the practice of placing bids early for whatever reason is just an illustration of how AS will manipulate the bid to ensure a win and thus ensure payment.
That's what I want... to win.

Now you're complaining about maintenance times not being in the FAQ's, and then quote from the FAQ's where it is. Confused

Enough already... If winning an auction is low on your list of priorities and you would rather get the rush of taking more risk, do a google search for 'snipe ebay'. There are several other places to go.

(edit) let me turn my mood up from -7 to -2...
I confused you with someone else, and suggesting THEY might be happier someplace else.
Last edited by puppyraiser
P pallbearerMember
Puppy,

I think it's great you want to win at any cost. I want to win at all costs sometimes too. However, when I pay to use AS, I want to win within the guidelines that AS has presented in its sales pitch: Last second, lowest price, without a bid war. Their undocumented tweaking of bid times adds a new level of risk on the sniper and also is directly against what is stated in the terms of their service.

Also, from your previous post, I believe you're confused about my issues with AS. I've made no complaints about down time not being posted. I knew it was posted. I was just suggesting that they include some time zone information so the international bidders that AS supports can get a quicker idea of when AS downtime is—no biggie.

What I WAS complaining about (and what I take serious issue to) is that AS makes NO mention that your bids will be placed upward to two hours early if you schedule a “snipe” within their scheduled downtime window. If I were AS I would just make a notice to snipers that this period of time is high risk and bids probably wont go through. Interestingly enough, it is stated as much in the FAQ—so why the heck aren’t they doing what they explicitly state they are doing? Also, AS makes NO reference to placing bids early due to forecasts of internet traffic. This traffic, incidentally, may or may not even be affecting the ebay auction you are involved with. These are the problems with the AS service I take issue with. To fix these problems all AS has to do is 1) Fix their literature or 2) do what they explicitly state they are doing, placing bids no matter what lead-time you give at the lead-time you give!

Puppy, I appreciate the help you give in these forums and the sheer amount of time you’ve spent in the community and the tools you graciously donate to us. I know you’re well meaning. However, to suggest to anyone that they should go somewhere else if they see a problem in a service they paid for is asinine. It is also detrimental to the quality of the service—believe it or not, I’m really trying to help AS here. I’ve not made rash or inflammatory statements. I’ve only stated the facts with my opinion of those facts. The fact is AS/Auctiva has a problem with how they are representing the operation of their service (i.e. they way the say it works isn’t the way it really works). This is also known as lying.

I don’t really know whether or not their motive for adjusting bid lead-times is to ensure they get paid during times when the risk of not being paid is high. Although I assume it is given they aren’t properly disclosing that they do adjust times and they have not responded to my assertions. If you don’t see a company making changes in their service that directly affects how their customers’ money is spent WITHOUT telling their customers as a bad thing, then keep on supporting this kind of behavior in Auctiva. If you do see a problem with it I think your voice on the matter might help. After they disclose this properly, anything else (like giving the user a choice whether or not to let AS tweak bid-times) is icing on the cake. I’m not asking you to give up winning at all costs, I’m asking AS to openly state that their service is directed at making the purchase and getting your bid out there at all costs.

PB
puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
quote:
I think it's great you want to win at any cost.
Who said that... not me. I have my max just like you should, and it's usually at the low end of the range. If I get outbid, so be it. At least if my bid is placed I have a chance of winning. I'd MUCH rather my bid be placed early than not at all.

I do agree, and always have, that AS needs to be more up front about how things work. They need to add to the FAQ's about bid timing adjustments, I just don't harp on it as much. Doing away with those adjustments would be a mistake and is not an option reguardless of what you/I/we think.

Also, please see my edit above.

You've worn me out... Moving on... Smile
J juliecatMember
Hi,

Very new to the service and VERY,VERY,VERY pi***ed off!!! What a disappointment to learn that at every turn it is "buyer beware". At every turn there is yet another unethical,dishonest, con-artist/s pulling themselves up the ladder of unashamed capitalist greed via other people's boot straps.

No real surprise that my latest encounter with this phenomenon eminates from the "land of the brave and the home of the "free-for-all" (this may be a uniquely Australian expression which requires translation; it means a lawless melee).

After all, they have a government who stole the election through disenfranchising an entire sector of the Florida community - mostly blacks, instigated a globally devasting war in Iraq, in the name of that great US ideal "democracy" (a cover for the real agenda -control of the the world's dwindling oil resreves), on the basis of a fabric of lies rergarding "weapons of mass destruction", ignoring the fact that the majority of Americans opposed the war and, who are now busy interfering in the domestic politics and democratic process of Australia's forthcoming Federal election.

For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, George W doesn't like the fact that our Labor opposition party who looks set to win our forthcoming Federal election plans to withdraw our troops from Iraq before Xmas. Consequently, senior Whitehouse officials are busy commentating on Australia's foreign policy in an attempt to influence the result of our election. An unhitherto seen phenomenon in this country.

The US's disregard for and interference in other countries democratic processes is a matter of historical record. Such obvious contempt for our autonomy and democracy is a new phenomenon in Australia. And one which is guaranteed to backfire.

And what the hell does all of this have to do with AS I hear you ask? Well, plenty.

Then there is little old me, just an ordinary, small time, ebay punter who stumbles across a service which looks like a good idea. I avail myself of the "free snipes" lure and have a wonderful time of it watching my snipes be placed exactly on time as I had dictated (ie: 5 seconds lead) and winning. Bloody brilliant! I'll join.

The minute I put my credit card details on the line I find that AS is costing me money. Well, I expected it too. They told me in their literature what it was going to cost me. Quite reasonable I thought. What I didn't expect was quite how much it was going to cost me as their early bidding pushed up the price of my purchases, consistently. They (clearly deliberately) didn't tell that the minute my credit card was in their system they would consistently (5 times so far) place my bid 26 - 29 seconds before the auction ended. Thus ensuring a bidding war which inflated my winning price (oh yes, I won) and consequently, greater profits to them.

In my naivete, after the first instance of this, I duly sent off my questions to customer support as to why this happened and promptly got the (clearly standard) response regarding monitoring of ebay processing times/delays etc, etc.Interestingly, when I replied to their response, asking some more detailed and more comlpex questions about the transaction I got no response. I'm still waiting. I don't think I'll bother asking so called "customer support" to explain their late bids on all my other auctions. It's very clear to me what's going on.

Fascinating, how a supposedly sophisticated system such as AS, specifically designed to place auction snipes at the last second, has to consistently place my bids 26 to 29 seconds in advance when my requested lead time is 5. My competitors are able to place theirs 6 seconds before auction end with no trouble at all. Clearly no great system slow dowm for them. Guess the AS system ain't that sophisticated after all!

Actually, this isn't entirely accurate. It is sophisticated. It's yet another sophisticated con for ripping people off. I can't help but wonder if AS has business links with ebay? How sweet it is! Listen to the cash registers tinkle. AS wins, ebay wins, seller wins. Everyone except the poor old punter is happy.

If I wanted to place a bid 38 minutes, 29 seconds or 26 second prior to an auction end thus ensuring a bidding war, I can do this myself without paying anyone else for the privilege.

The only value of the AS service to me and what I thought I was buying, is exactly what they advertise, that is an automated service that will place a bid when I am not able to be at my computer at a time I have dictated. There was nothing said about manipulating the timing of the bid I requested anywhere in their speil.

I absolutely agree with "pallbearers" posting of July 07 2004 10.31am. I think you are remarkably smart, articulate and very measured in your response to what is going on with this so called service/product we are paying for.

Sadly however, I think all your well meaning energies are wasted here. It is no co-incidence that these issues are not responded to with a sincere customer service approach to resolution (by Sarah or anybody else). Evasion and obfuscation is the key to this business continuing to make lots of money. It is designed to rip off the naive and unwary. And it doesn't even matter if those of us who have figured it out no longer give this mob our business. There are billions of us suckers out here in cyberspace ready to be exploited.

See, we come from a different experience and tradition of business practice and ethics. The one I'm used to operates on the basis that a business should supply the product it advertises and, if there is a fault or problem with that product, every effort will be made to rectify the problem, thus ensuring ongoing customer loayalty.

Out here in cyberspace, customer loyalty doesn't matter. There are billions of us to exploit and a quick few millions to be made in the so doing. With the marketing techniques this mob employ there will always be fresh meat. Mind you, it's a very short sighted business practice if you want to build a real business which has longevity.

Out here in cyberspace, surfing with the new generation of virtual entrepreneurs is clearly as dangerous as surfing was in the shark infested waters of the Gold Coast beaches I grew up on.

Don't waste your time trying to resolve issues which will never be resolved no matter how much you ask, cajole, entreat, beg.

The unsatisfactory matters regarding their service/product which you are asking to be addressed and resolved are the very key to the profit generating core of their business.

You are asking them to come clean on the con which they use (devolped in some think tank exercise or over a few lines of coke) to reel in custom so they can rip them off. Ain't gonna happen. Don't waste your money making a millionare of yet another souless, morally bankrupt Silicon Valley cybergeek. Don't pay him to do what you could do much better yourself for free.

Suggestion - pay a competent, unemployed friend to monitor the auctions you can't. You'll create employment "in your neck of the woods", help out a mate and save a heap of money compared to what this lot cost us in creating bidding wars to improve their profit margin.

And the connection to George W? Well, he's the US's elder statesman who actions stands as the example to all citizens of that great capitalist "democracy" and reflects their priorities to the rest of the world. And following his lead (and that of his forefathers)there is no lie, deception, or manipulation which will not be employed in the service of the one and only true god held dear by the world's leading capitalist "democracy" - money and power.

You live and continue to learn.

Wishing you ordinary punters all the best for your survival in the shark infested waters of the most base human of conduct.

Cheers

(I warned you at the beginning I was pi***ed off)
puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
I agree... you are ticked off.

Would have been a good post without the politics, but I'm not into that, so maybe it's just me. [(edit) nope, guess not...]

The early bidding is a problem, and has come up quite suddenly and not expected for this time of year. (not talking about the maintenance issue here) If we are put in a 'different pile' once we cross over to the paying side, I've not noticed it. The majority of the time, my bids have been placed within a second or two of my requested time of 7 or 8 seconds.

I doubt if there is any business relationship between AS and eBay. That's clear from the down time suffered by AS the last time eBay made a change to their bidding screens. Programmers scrambled for hours before they got it fixed and working again. eBay has also referred to AS as a parasite, which hints at what eBay thinks of AS... and you and me for using it.

WELCOME to the forum.
S snipersarabAuctionSniper Support
I'm sorry your snipes have been going in early. We're checking into that and will be addressing any problems we find.

quote:
devolped in some think tank exercise or over a few lines of coke
Sniff sniff, snort snort... ya caught me!
quote:
Evasion and obfuscation is the key to this business
Huh? Read the replies from us on this community all over the place. Then look at any other company in the world out there. I doubt you'll find anyone as open and responsive as we are.
quote:
Mind you, it's a very short sighted business practice if you want to build a real business which has longevity.
I suppose that's why we've built the largest site of this kind. We offer the best product, support, and reliability. Only 10 snipes in the last 85,000 auctions we've sniped haven't been placed on time. That's 1 in 8,500. And it's doubtful the 10 we missed were through any cause within our control.
P pallbearerMember
Sara,

AS is NOT being open and responsive. The face you give your company through your “support” in this particular matter is appalling and disappointing given how well I’ve seen you perform on other problems in the community. Your canned responses of ‘best in support and reliability’ are just as meaningless to me at this point as your unsubstantiated claim of 10 in 85000 auctions going off in time. ‘In time’ by whose definition? What exactly does AS consider ‘in-time’? In-time for AS to get paid? This is precisely the problem we are experiencing. AS internal definition of IN-TIME is substantially different than the definition you have on your literature.

You still haven’t addressed the key issue. You're arrogant defense of a purposely broken system designed to mislead your customers is saddening. YOU have stated AS manipulates lead-times to ensure bid registering. AS literature states something very different. Your company is lying; you're not helping my opinion on this belief. By avoiding the key issue in your post and writing tripe responses to drivel you're either illustrating your ignorance by not addressing the issues we've raised in other posts, or confirming this community’s growing suspicion that we're being had.

Auctionsniper.com is manipulating bid lead-times for their benefit when it says specifically that it does not manipulate bid lead-times. What is your response to that? Yea or Nay? If it yes, then AS needs to disclose to its customers that it is doing this and it can only do this properly (i.e. not through a forum post) by changing its main literature on the matter. This is the problem. If you fix it, then everything’s kosher.

If you’re going to inflate auction prices by sending in bids in early to make sure your customer wins (and in turn you get paid) then at least be honest about it. We are not ignorant of your actions so please quit treating us like we are. If your not being honest about your business model (or maybe, Sara, you had no idea before this that this is what your engineers are doing), then this problem will keep cropping up. Word of it will eventually leave these forums. The end result will not only damage your business but also that of your competitors.

PB

P.S.

Juliecat I hope my energies aren’t wasted. I think AS has great potential and will earn the right to be my sniping service when it eventually irons out its communications with their customers.

quote:
You are asking them to come clean on the con which they use [...] to reel in custom so they can rip them off.

As you do, I presume this to be the case. As I've stated endlessly, AS really hasn't given me anything of substance to change my mind. If it is a mistake on their part it should be simple enough to fix.

quote:
I suppose that's why we've built the largest site of this kind.

While this may be true, it doesn't make you right. This type of attitude makes you ripe for a trouncing by your competition. All they have to do is state they don't "mislead their customers by placing bids too early like Auctionsniper.com" It probably wont be long before they catch on either.
Last edited by pallbearer
C chatterMember
I have used AS for nearly three years (an eternity in eBbay land) and only twice have they ever not sent my bid in time. OTOH, I have succesfully won 834 auctions with them, with losses coming only when I have been outbid. I trust them to deliver, simply because they always HAVE delivered. Other sniping companies have come and gone in that time.

I also trust that AS would not risk bids not getting through on time or, conversely, would not send them way early (unless conditions warranted), risking counterbids that could cause the bidder to lose the auction. The speculation that AS sends them early to jack up the final price, but still allow the bidder to win the auction is ludicrous, to say the least. It imagines that AS has a crystal ball, knowing what other bidders will do, and which auctions will reach which prices.

Not knowing what amounts the counterbids would be, AS would not risk losing auctions, simply because then they do not get paid. By charging bidders only for wins, AS remains focused on winning auctions. There is no way to know if, or how high, counterbids might be; AS is not going to risk counterbids being too high. Whether all bidders agree with AS' conscious decision or not, AS has opted to sometimes risk sending bids too early, rather than too late. Those of us who have used the service for some time generally appreciate it, because we have all seen the complaints when bids did not reach in time--boy, have we seen them!

Lately we have seen a number of complaints about bids going in too early. Most (I said most, not all) come from new forum members, who appear in most (I said most, not all) cases to be new AS members. In many cases they are also new to eBay, which is another whole issue. But those of us who have been around a while notice that complaints run in trends. We recall the "bid not sent--this sucks" posts. Just as those whose bids were not sent (as in the recent bid group problems), depite their claims that they "would have won" because their snipe amounts were higher than the winning bid, have no way of REALLY knowing what the winning bidders had bid, so, too, those whose bids went in a little early have no way of knowing who planned to bid what amount, when and on which auctions. Perhaps folks should not bid amounts they are not willing to pay. And I think that we will ALWAYS have whiners, no matter what AS does.

I also tend to believe that some of the recent posts, since they seem to repeatedly beat the same dead horse, are actually made by the same individuals. I, for one, have granted the point that AS could handle the explanations better, but meanwhile am tiring of hearing about "company literature" and all the rest of it. Maybe AS could eplain this policy better, but it has been indicated countless times on this forum that this is the manner in which they have chosen to proceed. I do not use AS because of Sara; I use it because it snipes and wins auctions for me, and does so consistently.

There may have been a point in some of the recent complaints, but if so, it was made long ago and now we just have people beating the same dead horse. Can we move on? This is the last I will post on this subject, and members may consider this MY company literature.
Roll Eyes
bartelbybartelbyMember
If you dont follow the sheep, you are bound to get slaughtered.

quote:
I have used AS for nearly three years (an eternity in eBbay land) and only twice have they ever not sent my bid in time. OTOH, I have succesfully won 834 auctions with them, with losses coming only when I have been outbid. I trust them to deliver, simply because they always HAVE delivered. Other sniping companies have come and gone in that time.

I fail to see how this particular gem is meant to put these forum members mind at ease, they are just figures which mean little to those who have had snipes fail or go in very early. Same as Sara's claim that 10 in the last 85,000 have failed. Just numbers, could be fictious for all we know. You could say you had NO snipes fail and it would mean nothing, obviously there are others out there that are having difficulties.

I also fail to see how being new to ebay or AS is of consequence when you really dont need to be a rocket scientist to work either. Obviously if their snipes are firing - they are doing it correctly and it would apprea that AS needs to tweak there lag time processors.

As to why this conversation still continues... well doh....obviously its still an issue.

Maybe if Sara came in and replied why this is all of a sudden happening and that the AS techies are looking at the problem, then the horse would be let die.

Instead, these people come to a *support forum* and get rude replies from Support and Regular posters. And yes, alot of them come in *ready to fire*, I guess if I read the last few threads and saw the hostile responses - I would come in ready for a sh*t fight too!

These *new* AS members dont want statistics, they want to know their concerns about the lead times are being taken seriously and not being waved away as user incompetence.

Oh and by the way Juliecat I love conspiracy theories - keep them coming.

Maybe one of the other AS Support staff will come along and explain what is going on - AS cant keep saying there isnt a problem when it appears there is.
S snipersarabAuctionSniper Support
quote:
Just numbers, could be fictious for all we know.
Yep, pure lies. We actually only got in 10 bids in 85,000. The other 84,990 weren't placed. Listen, I simply pulled up our stats page at the exact moment I posted that thread and saw how many in we'd been sending later. Here I'd do it again. 17 in the past 47,000. I'm probably just lying again though. I suppose to the 1 in 3,000 people whose snipe failed it's no consolation that it was theirs that failed.

quote:
Maybe one of the other AS Support staff will come along and explain what is going on - AS cant keep saying there isnt a problem when it appears there is.
It's the same age old issue, that has been addressed at least 100 times.

Late bids never win. If you dont want AuctionSniper to place a bid that has a chance of making it to eBay on time then please go elsewhere, we dont want to here you're anymore because we're not going to change our system. Late bids always lose, if you like losing we have dozens of unreliable competitors go use one of them. We are the largest sniping site for the very simple reason that we are the most reliable, people come here in droves from everywhere else.

If you want to make a suggested change to our site or text, file a support case.

In any case this is the end of this discussion. It's been discussed in other threads at least 100 times as well. Any new threads created will be deleted, and the posters posting privlidges will be set to moderation, which means I'll have to approve new posts.
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