Closing snip

I too, have recently witnessed as a seller people sniping my auctions. I think it's exciting to watch. Funny though, you wait all week with little to no action, and then it all happens at the last 3 minutes!
Fun!

Last 3 minutes? Well, all I can say is that any sniper who bids with a lead time of more than 30 seconds is a rank amateur compared to our AS snipers!

No Doubt!
It sure adds to the excitement though. They think they are being so crafty!

Yes, they do. Well, their little sniping last night made me $500.00 more, so snip away!

rsmiller40

As a seller I love all bidders. Snipers are some of my favorites. They give me that little boost at the end of the auction

--- me

Wonder why some sellers actively dislike snipers?

I really don't understand why. They certainly force out any proxies that are sitting there.

rsmiller40

Bidding wars exaggerate the price of an item. We snipe to avoid bidding wars. Avoiding bidding wars lowers the ending price. We pay AS a fee to save money. Why do snipers make it sound like they are altruistic? Of course a sniper can increase the closing auction price. But if snipers placed a proxy bid, the auction would probably close at a higher price.

Anyone suggesting that we snipe because we want to spend more money? The reason we snipe is to SAVE money; ergo less $'s to seller. If you search prior posts you will see that most snipers admit that. Do you want some examples?

I SNIPE, AND I DO IT TO SAVE MONEY.

I guess the sellers that don't like snipers are short-sighted and think. "If that sniper had just bid 10 min before close, the nibbler would have up bid again". Of course they don't realize that the sniper would not be a bidder if he couldn't snipe and the bid would have stayed low.

Or, based on what one said "it's cheating". They think ebay is a game or something.

I suppose the way to snipe an auction that doesn't allow bids in the last 10 minutes is to bid with 10 minutes and 1 second to go. Then complain if they give the win to someone that bid after you. Nah, they are just plain twisted.

--- me

quote:

---

Originally posted by rsmiller40:
their little sniping last night made me $500.00 more, so snip away!

---

Very, VERY nice bonus. Sounds like you deal in items that are outside of my price range.

Would anyone be willing to tell me why they snipe if it isn't to save MONEY? I'm very curious about this. My intent is not to insult (I'm a sniper, after all).

Sure, the primary objective of and reason for sniping is to save money. But there are some intangible secondary reasons, too -- winning consistently, not having to sit at your computer until the auction ends at 3 AM, and above all, avoiding the aggravation caused by "nibblers." I'm sure Forum participants can come up with other intangible benefits unrelated to saving money.

Of course we snip to save money and most important, to win, but on the seller's side there is a bonus sometimes. If there are people sitting there with unused proxies and someone at the end snips successfully, it forces the proxies out and soommmm goes the final price. On the otherhand, the winner got what he sniped for at what he was willing to pay. <--loves snipers and loves to snip!

rsmiller40

It's interesting that you added the tag line, "...and, most importantly, to win." We don't always save money when we win. Sometimes we're pushed right up to our max in winning and then, of course, we don't save any money -- we just don't spend more than we think the item is worth to us. This, of course, is highly subjective: one man's trash is another man's treasure, so to speak. What an item is worth to us may be well in excess of its usual market price. So under those circumstances, do we really save money?

I am not so sure I save money every time I snipe. To be honest, I think I end up paying what I call
"fair market value" - the price people were generally willing to pay for that item.
Sure, there are times that for whatever reason, I get a deal, but I think it is more due to the fact that like in a "live" auction, some days you get lucky.

Where I actually save money is on the occassional "Buy It Now" feature. When a seller places an item up and doesn't really understand it's value and I end up purchasing it at a great price.

For me, I snipe to win. I feel that by placing my highest bid at the last possible moment allows me to bid unchallenged.
I am not as worried about saving money as I am about winning the item.
I know that I will probably end up not getting a deal, but I will most likely win the auction, and that's why I snipe.

-bjt

That's the simple truth. I want THAT particular item. Of course, this desire is not completely irrespective of the price asked, but Steve has reminded us that while one person may throw it out, another may assign it value.

I purchase two principal categories of items: books and memorabilia. The former I see as mind-expanding and the latter nourishes my sentimentality. Both of these categories often see me bidding in excess of "market" value (whatever that means), because the items in question occupy a strong place in my heart and mind. As such, and combined with my sniping stragtegy, I tend to win most of my auctions.

As I have posted here before, I am of the "set your snipe amount and walk away" school of thought. This is an integral part of my sniping strategy. In so doing, I set a high enough amount that allows me to overcome most nibblers. Occasionally I do not, and I accept this as proof that someone was willing to pay more--and probably had the same desire to nourish his mind or heart, for which I cannot blame him.

Occasionally I do chuckle when I see a bidding war in which I do not participate, or moronic nibblers who nickel-and-dime the price up, even while they continue to bid pittances. I realize that in some auctions the seller ends up getting a lower final price because of my snipe (in that the nibblers may have nibbled past my max, had I bid earlier), while other times I realize that the seller gets more (usually when there was no bidding war going on and my snipe simply raised the final price higher, or where there were no prior bids at all).

But the REAL reason I snipe is because because I like to sign on to eBay and see that I have won my precious widget, period!

Here, Here!! (Applause)

"Tis not a noble thing we do, but to win the widget that is our due!"

-bjt

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Good food for thought.

I think I must look into this widget thing. Maybe I am missing something!

rsmiller40

A hidden benefit to sniping... I've changed my mind a few times and cancelled a snipe, or lowered my maximum bid. Retracting a bid on eBay is generally not a good idea, as I believe a count is kept and displayed on your feedback profile. So, if I impulsively bid too much for an item, it does no harm to my eBay profile to change my bid on AS before it is ever placed on eBay.

I hadn't thought of that before, abbatazappa, but you're right. I don't often change the pre-set amount of my snipe, but I sometimes alter the lead time, and of course if the proxy nibblers have taken the price up above my maximum I cancel the snipe altogether.

That's true. I have changed my mind on a snip and decided not to bid. It is nice not to be stuck!

rsmiller40

LET'S SEE HOW MUCH EXCITEMENT I CAN STIMULATE ! !

Round Two (INTENTIONS of Sniping)


I agree with ALL the "intangible secondary reasons" listed in the prior posts. But, if you took away the "primary" reason (saving, same as a lower closing price) and only had the "secondary" reasons, I doubt many (I didn't say "any") of us would be sniping. And, I think most of us would still snipe if we only had the "saving" reason.

"So under those circumstances, do we really save money" - Then no reason not the leave a proxy bid as soon as you spot the auction. Remember, some of us have admitted that they have increased their snipe due to other proxy bidders.

If "winning" versus "saving" is the prime objective, then to avoid sniping fees (snipers pay this fee because they're benevolent?) I would suggest placing exaggerated proxy bids. You won't always win, but sniping doesn't insure winning either, and you won't have to worry about outages (which would probably increase your "winnings" but reduce your "savings").

What this "winning" argument is saying is, "I want to win the auction at a price that I'm willing to pay, but if I place a proxy bid, I may not be able to get the item at the price I want, or I may have to pay more for it." Simple solution - increase the price you're willing to pay if winning, versus price, is more important.

The purpose of sniping is to not give the other guy(s) a chance to respond (be it ebay or Vietnam), period! Some may find the definition of "sniper" interesting.

I snipe to "buy" the item at the "cheapest" price. I must be an exception when it comes to sniping and to my other purchases (be they "bargains" or good "deals'). Maybe I'm the only person on this forum that thinks this way, or maybe I'm the only one willing to admit it without trying to sugar-coat it.



(I doubt anyone will address my argument in it's entirety. Two or three quotes, tops - "rebuttal nibblers").

Round Three (RESULTS of Sniping)


I broke this out into two posts. "Round Two" is for those that want to justify their "intentions" in sniping by providing their personal experiences or motivations. Intentions are difficult to prove or disprove. "Round Three" is for those that want to discuss the "results" of sniping.

I'd prefer to discuss "results". What tends to be the OVERALL results of sniping?

It's been often stated that sniping helps to avoid bidding wars. "Bidding wars exaggerate the price of an item. We snipe to avoid bidding wars. Avoiding bidding wars lowers the ending price." Since this is the second time I've said that, perhaps some further explanation is necessary.

First of all - can we for once avoid the "Chatty Cathy" statement that "Snipers can increase the closing auction price"? All successful bids increase the closing price, be they snipes or proxy bids.

The real issue, and the one that upsets some sellers (and apparently some snipers) is: Had all snipes been placed as proxy bids well in advance of the close, wouldn't that tend to increase bidding wars (REMEMBER: a very popular reason for sniping is to AVOID bidding wars), and since bidding wars tend to increase the closing price, by not placing proxy bids don't we snipers therefore tend to inhibit the closing price?

A big, if not the biggest, reason we snipe is to prevent giving some nibbling proxy bidder the chance to nibble us. Sellers like nibblers. Nibblers are in the open and snipers have been know to increase their snipe based on nibblers (and proxy bidders). Might not nibblers increase their nibbles if the sniper left their maximum snipe as a proxy bid to be nibbled?

I snipe because I have the expectation that the fee I pay AS (or the value of my time if a manual snipe) plus the closing price will be less then the closing price if I were to place a proxy bid. If some snipe with the expectation that they will be paying more, then I hope you aren't teaching economics nor running a business.

MY CONTENTION: SNIPING, VERSUS PROXY BIDDING, TENDS TO LOWER THE CLOSING PRICE OF AN AUCTION, EXCLAMATION POINT!



(As in Round Two, "rebuttal nibblers" should be expected.)

Mrs. M,

I'm going to predict 4+ neg/neutral feedbacks from those previous 2 posts of mine within the next 48 hours, and probably will only take 24. I also have a pretty good idea who will leave what (I've only predicted the response for members with 50+ posts). I'll tell you how close I come to my target.

Rick, I have nothing to add because the reader of archives knows this is exactly how I stand on the issue...and we will watch the posts.

rsmiller40

Hi Rick,
I stand aside on this one as well, as my viewpoints have already been stated on earlier occassions.
It will be interesting to see what other people think!

-bjt

Other than to observe that it is not possible to "save" money by spending it, I hold myself aloof from the fray as well.

Steve, as I see it, you are not aloof by that statement.

rsmiller40

Just an interested bystander

-bjt

Steve,

From your previous posts, I suspected that we would have similar thoughts.

I put a lot of importance on the choice of words (probably too much). And I'm probably splitting hairs, but when we use words like "save", it starts to make sniping sound like something different from "that it tends to lower the closing price of an auction".

I'm not trying to insult, nor draw you, or anyone, into a debate, but it's so easy to confuse the result of something thru euphemisms. Example: "Collateral Damage". Buildings are Damage; People are Killed (don't mean to get political, just an example).

I'm not running down snipers (I'M ONE).

( my apologies in advance, if I've insulted anyone )

<---going for another cup....2 cups of coffee.

rsmiller40

Quoting Mrs. M.: "Steve, as I see it, you are not aloof by that statement."

I allowed for an exception with my first two words: "Other than."

I've already had my say on this subject and have no further comment.

And the ratio is?

rsmiller40

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve:
and have no further comment.

---

Mrs. M, do you "buy" that? (would that make him the "seller"?)

As I think I stated, no.

rsmiller40

One count for Rick

rsmiller40

Hmm, well we all know that a snipe is a bird and to snipe is to shoot from a concealed place. I guess this is exactly what we are doing since we are not birds and the reason and result are to me, completely unambiguous.

rsmiller40