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First bad EBay experience

G gbchafinMember
I just had my first real bad experience on Ebay. I won an IHome IH8 IPod radio via Auction Sniper (thanks AS) and the seller (Empire Liquidators) sent me a non-functioning IH5 (different model number and it wasn’t as described at all). I called customer service and they told me to return it (at my expense) for a full refund. So, I returned it via UPS (tracking) and waited 3 weeks…no refund. I e-mailed twice…no response. I called customer service again and was told, “Oh…I’ll forward this to the accounting department right now for your refund, but we don’t issue refunds until you first leave positive feedback.” Well, I didn’t leave positive feedback and I never got the refund. I made sure I filed a PayPal claim prior to the 45 days expiring (first time I ever had to file a claim). The seller immediately elevated it to a dispute and said, “This item has not been returned as of this date. Therefore, a refund or a replacement have not been issued.”

I’ve done some googling on Empire Liquidators and they’re infamous for retaliating negative feedback and requiring positive feedback prior to issuing refunds (and sometimes they don’t even issue the refund after receiving the positive feedback).

Couple of questions here…Was I wrong to refuse to leave positive feedback prior to receiving the refund? I just feel that if the seller screwed up, my refund should not be contingent upon me first leaving positive feedback (especially when my experience was a horrible one). Also, their response to PayPal of “This item has not been returned as of this date. Therefore, a refund or a replacement have not been issued” really surprised me…especially when you consider that I previously e-mailed them the tracking number, the date and time it was received by them, and the name of the guy who signed for it (and the same information was included in my PayPal claim). Does this company have a chance of winning this dispute? I’ve never left negative feedback, but I really don’t see how I can’t in this case.
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C chatterMember
quote:
Couple of questions here…Was I wrong to refuse to leave positive feedback prior to receiving the refund?

Nope! You were spot on!

quote:
Does this company have a chance of winning this dispute? I’ve never left negative feedback, but I really don’t see how I can’t in this case.

You do not actually say that you have verified through UPS that the item was received by the company. Assuming that it was, since you have UPS tracking info and have provided same to PayPal, I doubt that the company will win. I expect that PayPal will see that you receive a refund. Hang in there.
G gbchafinMember
Empire Liquidators doesn’t tell you via e-mail that “they don’t issue refunds until you first leave positive feedback.” They only say this over the phone. They’re smarter than that.

How do you “complain to eBay”? I do feel that eBay should know what this company is doing (if they don’t already know). Is it “allowable” to only issue refunds contingent upon the customer first leaving positive feedback? Is this something eBay would want to know about…or even care about? Something else Empire Liquidators does is whenever anyone leaves a neutral or a negative comment, they immediately leave the customer a negative comment and say, “Please call us so we can fix this for you.” Then, when you call, they say, “We’ll remove our negative if you remove your negative.” It seems to me that this company is wildly abusing the feedback system and artificially pumping up their feedback score. There’s a ton of negative feedback left for this company, but interestingly the vast majority is “mutually removed”. And when you check the feedback for the buyer, they always have a reciprocated negative feedback.

eBay is changing the feedback system and I wouldn’t doubt it if this company wasn’t at least in some small way responsible for the change. But, even with the change, I could still envision this company refusing to issue refunds until the customer either first leaves positive feedback or agrees to remove the negative feedback. Empire Liquidators is very good at manipulating the feedback system to their benefit. They’re feedback is 99.6% positive. But, if you considered the mutually-removed negative feedback, it’d be more like 95%.

One more question, if I wait to leave negative feedback for this company until after eBay changes the feedback policy, will they be able to reciprocate the negative?
C chatterMember
Yes, they will be able to retaliate with the negative and probably will. You could get slick and wait until the 89th day, as unless eBay has changed that, one can only leave feedback until the 90th day. However, this system never seemed terribly precise, so sometimes people were able to leave feedback for a week or so after the 90th day.

That said, if you are only a buyer, then a single negative is not going to mean much to you. If you also sell, then it might have a greater impact. Even then, one may not make much of a dent, unless you are brand new. However, I would leave it, because it is just and the proper thing to do. I would also report your situation to eBay using their complaint resolution center. Don't get into speculations or other salaes records. Simply report what happened to you in your situation.
G gbchafinMember
I just received an e-mail from PayPal saying that they ruled in my favor. So, I ended up getting my $55.95 back. On 4/14/08 the seller had elevated the dispute to a claim and just said, “This item has not been returned as of this date. Therefore, a refund or a replacement have not been issued.” On 5/10/08 (nearly a month later) PayPal then told me that I need to return the item and provide the tracking information if I expected a refund. I replied and provided the tracking information. I also stated that I had provided the tracking information to the company on 4/7/08 in an e-mail and that they chose to ignore the e-mail (as well as several other e-mails). I then explained that in my last call to customer service, they never said that they didn’t receive the product; they just said that I wouldn’t get a refund unless I first left positive feedback. I explained that I cannot believe this is an acceptable business practice that Ebay and PayPal would or should condone. After this exchange, I very quickly received my refund…and it came directly from PayPal as opposed to the company. PayPal made the statement that they would recover the money from the company. Based upon how quickly PayPal acted after I made that statement, it struck me that I likely wasn’t the first customer to make a statement like this against the company. So, this was win-win for me. I got my money back (less what I had to pay to ship it back), I got to make PayPal aware of this company’s shady business practices, and now I get to wait until 5/20/08 to leave negative feedback and the company can’t retaliate (at least I don’t believe they can…and even if they can, I don’t care). But, I’m still stunned that a company can send me the wrong product (let alone a product that doesn’t even work) and then I have to return the product AT MY COST if I want to receive a refund.
E egambinoMember
I also had my first bad experience (been on Ebay since 1999). A bidder placed the winning bid. He was located in Japan. He gives me the address, told me how he wanted it shipped (cheapest possible way). I sent his purchase (a Berliner record from 1899) USPS first class insured. He claimed he never got it, even though the USPS said it arrived. He initiated a claim with PayPal. Even though I gave them the evidence that it arrived, they still ruled in his favor since they can't prove that he didn't receive it. The evidence (tracking # info) meant nothing to PayPal, neither did the Customs info. They issued a refund to this scammer, now my Paypal account is in the negative zone, and he gets to give me my first negative rating in 9 1/2 years of selling on ebay. I may just refuse Paypal for overseas purchases, or entirely, which is what a lot of people seem to be doing.
N newuserMember
Im not much of an e- bay fan for the most part but every once in a while I check it out and see what I can find. A S is awesome btw and has actually enticed me to buy on e- bay more often. That said I only buy. And once upon purchasing an item I had to leave neg feed back. Took a little over a month to get my item. Paid with pay pal (verified) so did as I thought was the right thing to do. I instantly recieved neg feed back from the seller. They said I was the worst customer ever lol. After that experience I figured e- bay rating system was just another popularity contest and not worth the effort of leaving any feed back.

Im happy you got your money back and maybe pay pal might pay attention to the complaint. I doubt very much that e- bay will. If the new feed back policy of only having a feed back for the seller is actually legit then this should get the rating system closer to reality.

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