ebay Sellers fictitiously signing in as buyers?

That's a big NO NO at eBay. but...

It is possible. eBay (or someone like yourself) would have to notice a 'pattern of behavior' before anything could be done about it.

They would investigate past auctions and look for things like 1.) The same user ID bidding on their auctions and no one elses 2.) An unusually large percentage of auctions being bid on by 'New' user ID's.

eBay will look into it, but VERY difficult to find and/or prove.

Good Luck... Do you think this has happened to you?

It's called 'Shill' bidding, and it's against the rules on eBay. Unfortunately I believe it happens quite a lot. Either them or their friends. If you have good reason to believe someone is doing it then contact eBay.

In fact this is a great reason to use our site, it leaves them little if any time to shill bid.

And Welcome to the forum.

Sara was right, That's another reason to snipe!

Of course, it would not really help ward off shill bidding if you were not the only bidder, AS or not. Just need to be careful and if you think the price is getting run up, don't buy.

I inadvertantly had both a buyer and seller's accounts suspended when I reported what I thought was shill bidding. The seller was an online aquaintance of mine and I was bidding on their item in good faith. When I saw a relative of this person outbid me and bid on several of the seller's other auctions I questioned the seller. The seller didn't reply to my question so I reported it to ebay. Within an hour of reporting it to ebay I received an email from them saying both accounts had been suspended for suspicion of shill bidding. I felt bad because I have a good relationship with the seller. I did it because I felt I was outbid only to raise the price of the item. The seller ended up sending me the item for free (it was a handmade item) so they didn't have any hard feelings against me I guess. They were a brand new seller and didn't pursue reactivating their account.

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In fact this is a great reason to use our site, it leaves them little if any time to shill bid.

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I don't understand how sniping gives shill bidders little or no time to bid. Since shill bidding is done throughout the duration of the auction and sniping is done in the last few seconds, how can this be? I would think shill bidders would make it so a sniper wouldn't even bother with the auction if the price has been driven up. Can someone explain how sniping helps prevent shill bidding?

[This message was edited by coralbelle on November 30, 2003 at 06:22 AM.]

I went to an auction several years ago. Some lady kept running the price up on everything this gentleman bought. At the auction end, he had bought thousands of dollars worth. He turned to her (an obvious shill) and said, now load all this stuff back in your barn. I'm not taking it!! LOL! And he walked off, leaving her standing , speechless.

Hi Coralbelle.

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I would think shill bidders would make it so a sniper wouldn't even bother with the auction

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If others (we) don't bid, they don't sell their item.
Also a shill bid ( if high bid ) is likely to be cancelled before the auction ends.



[This message was edited by puppy_raiser on November 30, 2003 at 07:21 AM.]

After thinking a while.. This may be a better explanation.

Let‘s suppose there is a gizmo you’re willing to pay $10 for.

If you bid now, the shill bidder can nibble the price up to your max. If you snipe, he doesn’t have time to do that. The shill bidder doesn’t want to win, they want to drive the price up but loose.

Puppy, you are assuming no one else is bidding on the item. If there are other bidders, your snipe is not going to stop anything.

Yes. Once again you are 110% right.

So... Everyone should snipe!

Shill bidding isn't usually done on popular items with lots of bids though.

Also, Coralbelle, I would not report anyone for this. Why? How do I know that the person's friend, etc. is not really bidding on the item to purchase it? It sure would cause a lot of unnecessary grief. I just stop bidding if I think this might be the case and it is driving the price past where I want to pay. I would not want to judge anyone that way.

Puppy, now that would be an interesting ending to an auction! LOL! If the seller didn't end it early, can you imagine the last few seconds?



[This message was edited by Mrs.M on November 30, 2003 at 08:54 AM.]

Well that's what is bother me so much. This is only one reason why ebay isn't such a great auction house. Im wondering why is it so popular, and why hasn't anyone come up with a better auction which is based on a more realistic approach to auctions. For example, ebay has the following problems:

1) Shill bidders

2) Bid closing are within hours and even days then a bidder finds out they lost.

3) Also, the long time durations psychologically effect bidders where their desire increases for the product during the long wait, making them bid higher then the market value of the product. Take for example my brother-in-law who sold a second hand baby stroller for more then he bought it new. How did that buyer feel when they got the item?

4) To make bidding fair, all ebay bidders must use snipping companies or many will be at a disadvantage to ones who are.

I think there is a better way to conduct on-line auctions and I just wondered why hasn't anyone come up with a better idea since its so popular.

I can't say I agree with you, but there you go...it's new ideas that launch new companies, so go for it!

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Originally posted by Sniper Sara B.:
In fact this is a great reason to use our site, it leaves them little if any time to shill bid.

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Other reasons are bid retractions and stalkers.

All one has to do to retract a bid is claim that a minor placed the bid, or that they transposed the bid amount. If you report it to ebay they seem to just warn the bidder. If no one complains then they can pretty much do it when ever the mood strikes. Have you noticed that bid retractions don't show up on the "By Bidder" search, yet they are still listed in the auction's bid history?

Unfortunately, stalkers do exist on ebay. If you happen to win one to many auctions that they've bid on, they will nibble everything you proxy bid on. I think it becomes a personal thing with them.



Puppy,

Regarding this post:
>>> Click here <<<

The forum was down this morning. I've been noticing that happening more often, and it seems to be around the same time. Maybe infopop is doing some maintenance. It seems to last around 30 minutes. I've also seen it happen during the day.

Glad to see you were able to delete a message. The problem you encountered on the 26th when you deleted the message was very, very strange.

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Originally posted by bmeh:
making them bid higher then the market value of the product.

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"Making"? I don't see a gun pointed at their head.

Shill bidding can still occur even if you snipe since shill bidders know about snipping and may count on their product being sniped. As for how ebay finds out about snipping, I think that's inadequate. If that's the only way they can identify a shill bidder by taking all that time to investigate with millions of users then many buyers are being fooled in thinking that they are in a real and fair bidding match with someone when we are being taken as fools. Imagine someone who desperately wants to buy something. They would wind up paying higher than market value. I was shocked when my brother-in-law said he sold
his second hand baby stroller for more then he bought it new. For goodness sake, it had tape all over the handles. If you went to Kmart and the sales person said I have two identical baby strollers. One is used and the other is new, and the price for the used one was more then the new one, which one would you buy?

I understand, but I assume when you are bidding, you need to use your head! This is real life. You can't expect to be always protected against everything. If you can get a better deal at the store, so be it!

eBay is by no stretch of the imagination perfect, but... Sellers must describe the item accurately, and buyers must decide what they are willing to pay.

The only really fair auction on line would be a sealed bid auction. While eBay may consider that as an option for sellers, it is not going to happen across the board. eBay is the most popular and draws the most traffic. I think that’s why they will remain the most popular. I check out other auction sites from time to time, but my first stop is always eBay, because I know if it’s available, they will have it. Other sites just don’t have the quantity or assortment.

Auction Sniper is the closest thing I can find to a sealed bid.

True, puppy, but even a sealed bid auction would be easy to manipulate by shilling. I still say the bottom line is use your head. We are not in a perfect world and there will always be someone out there looking for the person with "take me" stamped on their forehead!

And look, there is an organization for them! LOL!!(just kidding)

LOL
but, shill bidding in a sealed bid auction is just the same as setting a starting price at eBay, so it isn't really shilling.

I'm getting dizzy.

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"Making"? I don't see a gun pointed at their head.

Of course its not forcing them physically but a bidder can be pyschologically influenced to bid higher. As time goes on and bidders are thinking and thinking about their bid, the bidders desire for a product grows. For example, if its a Friday night and your friends want to take you out but your not in the mood, your friends after some time of trying to convince you to go out with them, can change your mood to want to go out too. If your friends then turned around and said forget about it they changed their minds, and don't want to go out anymore after you want to now, you would be very upset. Like these auctions. As time goes on, your desire for the product increases until the thought of lossing to another bidder is not pleasing. So, you wind up bidding higher then market value. Simple question: Have you ever entered a bid higher then you planned on initially? What do you think of this?

It may not be right, but they and their frinds to it to rise the prices. Well, they belong to the same organization Mrs. M is showing, as the ones that lose to AS snipe. The only snipes I ever lose are the ones priced more than I will pay. There are a lot of times that when I get an AS notice that the price is higer than I have set as max. Then I just cancel that item from my bid group and go on. Sooner or later one comes along that I get at my price (assumeing I have researched the value and the prices and bid my set max.)

"Shop" and My Snipes

Exactly, Shop!!! I snipe on many things, but buy very few. I know I have more time than money, so I will wait for another to come down the pike. I guess if I felt like I could not gracefully back out of an auction and would pay more than I wanted, well, I might be the first to start Auction Anonymous! No, sorry, I don't pay more than I intend at an auction. Maybe it's my age...can't think of a thing I could not live without!

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And look, there is an organization for them! LOL!!(just kidding)



Ha, ha that's funny. Im actually doing some research. I have been working on a patent pending Attorney case management program for over a year now and during the assembly of an automated settlement system on the program for pending cases, I realized the system I developed could be utilized in other areas. For example, if applied to on-line auctions, the system is a combination of a snipping service and ebay put together. There is Phenomena occurring now with these auctions and snipping companies. Bidders are actually engaging in "speed-bidding" session with other snipping services and bidders. Its obvious that there is a need for shorter bidding events. Thus, the application I created allows bidders to engage in bidding sessions that last for 1 to 1 1/2 mins. Because of the way the system is set up, everyone has the same chance of winning. Even if you are using a snipper service. I have been researching the possibility of taking this system into a new type of auction service, and have been trying to identify how this system is better than ebay's system which I have identified in many ways.

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Originally posted by bmeh:
ebay Sellers fictitiously signing in as buyers?
Does anyone know anything about sellers on ebay registering fictitious userids as buyers to raise their own bid amounts.

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Was this a shill post?


Have your friends call my friends and my friends will "make" your friends take you out.

Its a legitimate question and concern. Since posting the question, I have learned a great deal, and I am sure others have as well read the threads. I have learned what its called and more details about it. Someone from ebay sent me this link on ebay which gives great detail on shill bidding:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

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Have you ever entered a bid higher then you planned on initially?

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No because I research the item before bidding so I know how much it's worth. If a buyer bids too high for an item that's from his own ignorance and failure to know what it's worth beforehand. I as a seller have been astonished at what people will pay for the widgets I sell. I get nervous they're going to leave neg. feedback once they realize they overpaid. But it was THEIR choice to bid that much, I certainly didn't force them to do it.