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34 replies

The case for bidding manually first, then sniping.

cameracameraMember
I hope you will excuse this, but I have "lifted" this topic from the support board (Auction Sniper placing early bids - mz.babz) because I feel it needs some discussion and advice from experienced snipers to those new to the game.

First we had Sara saying:
"You bid manually on that auction early on signifantly driving the price up and alerting your competetion that you may be bidding again"

Then Region2:
"Don't bid manually then snipe (unless you have too much money and want to give it away! To me!!)"

Don't get me wrong, in principle I agree with Sarah - 80% of my bids are sniped and I give no early indication to my opponents that I am bidding. This is particularly important if the item is rare or the description is totally incorrect and I sense a bargain to be had!

However, this is where you have a general idea of where the price is heading - you can generally sense people's interest by the bidding pattern.

One of the two exceptions, I feel, are reserve price auctions. In these, I often make several early bids - never in too large an increment - (rather like nudging on a fruit machine!) to try and see where the reserve lies. Once established, I never bid again and just let the AS software take over.

The other exception is when I really want the object and watch the auction's end - in this case AS simply can't be contacted in the closing minutes and I then have to revert to bidding before AS places my bid. I know, I know you should make your mind up early and place the maximum bid with AS, but sometimes the stakes are too high and manual overide is necessary!

Well, what do you think?

Paul
Original Post

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rickrickMember
Regarding reserve auctions, I don't think you'll get any disagreement. That's what most of us would do.

On your 2nd exception, I wouldn't disagree. I've been know to increase my snipe amounts. A purist would say decide max, place your snipe, and leave the snipe alone. I have to admit to being human some times. Also, I think on more expensive items, there's probably a greater chance of increasing the bid amount.

If you do place a manual snipe that blocks AS, AS will still charge you. Just wanted to be sure you were aware of that.
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puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
I must vote for NOT bidding early...Ever.

The exception for reserve auctions: I don't agree. If the reserve is over my max it's to expensive for me. If it's not I may win for the reserve. Many, and perhaps most, try to avoid reserve auctions just because they are reserve. Why give my interest away... if it's going to happen, let someone else do it.

exception 2: You must translate 'Really want' into a dollar amount. To most that does NOT mean 'At Any Cost'. If it did, you could just bid $1000 on that $100 gizmo. 'Really want' to me is taking the time to look at past auctions for the same or similar items. Odds are this auction will go along the same lines as past auctions have. If it doesn't, another should come along. If the item is rare, there are places other than eBay you can investigate and should be able to come up with an estimated 'eBay value' and add on a bit more.

Now, my reasoning only works if I know the value of the item. For rare items this could be difficult, and I've certainly been known to change my bid amount, and more than once! But I still won't give my interest away by bidding early in an auction. For items that are not-so-rare, I simply wait for another to come along.

The hardest part about using AS to my advantage is determining what my MAX is. Not my 'Starting max' or 'Medium Max', but my REAL max. After I enter a snipe I ask myself 'What if I'm outbid or the reserve is not met?' If the answer is 'I should have bid more' then it's time to increase my snipe. That's true whether I've actually been outbid or not.

That's my two cents. Smile

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mrsmmrsmMember
Yes, I have raised my snipe amount when I bid on an important item and had given it a little more research or thought. I also have manually bid on an auction a few seconds before the snipe is placed in such auctions, just for assurance. I know that it raised the amount I owend the buyer by $1.00 on the last bid/snipe I did for around 1800.00, so it was a cheap safety-net, I think.
As for bidding early, I also vote never!

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C chatterMember
I will disagree on both premises. In a reserve auction, I see it no differently than any other auction. I decide my max and let AS do its thing. If my bid was not high enough to meet the reserve, oh well, they wanted more money than I was willing to pay. This is no different to me than losing to another bidder.

To me, proxy bidding to determine the reserve alerts the opposition, just as in any other auction. It seems very impatient (which, IMHO, is the very antithesis of sniping). It is just not worth taking a chance, when you are going to have to wait until the end of the auction, anyway.

I am not sure I understand the other situation. Sometimes I am home and able to watch an auction end, but I still let AS do it, even if I am sitting at the computer. In fact, if I am sitting there, I will bid manually in the final minute--not trying to undo anything AS is doing, just as a back-up in the unlikely event of an AS failure. But I do this, knowing that I will be charged for the snipe. It is more than worth it. I do not see how this would involve not using AS.

I am home and on the forum for a few more days, then I will be away for the holidays, until after New Year's Day. I will not likely be checking the forum in my absence. Frown
bartelbybartelbyMember
To get back to the original topic Wink

I am known to test the waters and proxy bid and I do this more regularly now days.

I think its a personal thing - I bid proxy and snipe, and I still dont pay more than I am willing to part with.

I have tried to explain my reasons a few times and you will always get arguments, but if it works for you do it.

I must not be the best judge of an items worth coz the last few auctions I have proxy bid on I have won for my *testing the waters proxy*. Which is fine by me as that amount as still been below my snipe amount.

If I really want someone I will pay to get it and seriously I dont care what it costs. I have trouble deciding what my maxium snipe will be, so I proxy to get a feel for the ball park then quit. I know I am running up the price, but in real terms I would still have to pay that amount to win so big deal. If someone comes along, I dont enter the bid war I set my snipe and walk away.

Now thats my way of doing and I am happy Smile

Lexie
mrsmmrsmMember
For one thing, not everyone is bidding on the same type of thing, so there are a lot of variables out there. As an example,I have never used bid groups. I have no use for them because what I bid on is always one of a kind. And this hold true in the other aspects of sniping as well. A person has to look at the facts and possibilities and decide for himself what works best! Smile

B bjones9942Member
I agree ... most times a reserve is entered instead of setting the opening bid so potential bidders aren't scared away from bidding. I've found that about 80% of the time sellers are willing to tell me what their reserve is. I then decide if I want to bid or not.

The only time I don't snipe is if I see an auction that's ending within a couple of minutes that also hasn't had any bids placed. Too many people think something MUST be worth buying simply because other people are bidding on it. I think it's the same mental mechanism that makes people sit at dirty tables in a restaurant even though there are plenty of clean ones available (someone else liked THIS table - it MUST be good)! Smile
S shirleyMember
I've got a mixed answer to this question. Has this happened to any of you?

At least twice in the past, I've "indicated an interest" to different sellers by asking enthusiastic questions about the bauble (which in my case is usually green and prickly) -- and the seller has responded by answering my email and RAISING the starting bid on the auction -- one time it went from $19.99 to $39.99!

So my answer would be that yes, I sometimes place an early proxy bid on items that seem underpriced, just to fix the opening bid where it is. Then I email my questions and wait to bid my max later (manually, until now!), but ONLY if the seller has a fantastic feedback rating...

That's dangerous, though, if it turns out that the answer to my email question is something like "well, no, actually the item in the picture isn't REALLY the item up for bid, it's just kind of similar maybe to what it will grow up to be in ten years or so... well, that is, unless my six-year-old mixed up the seeds when he planted them in his dixie-cups... Oh, but don't worry, I'm sure the plants won't freeze during shipping becaue I do all of my packing in the greenhouse!"

Bidder Beware?
J jabbergahMember
Hi Shirley!

Welcome to the forum!

I must admit, I've never had the experience of my interest in an item causing the opening bid to jump! Eek In that case, placing an opening bid would nail it down initially.

Your concern about placing that initial bid may obligate you to something that turns out to be something other than you expect, wouldn't that be a justification to withdraw a bid? Or maybe a better approach may be to put the item on your watch list and wait until ANOTHER bidder places the first bid before e-mailing questions?

Jabbergah                                                    
puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
Hi Shirley

I give you a WELCOME as well !

I've never had that happen either, but deal with a much different type of item. Ones that are ALWAYS popular and ALWAYS have bids.

Is the jump in price still worth it? Do you think it will still sell?
You might consider another e-mail with something like:

Thank you for your quick response, but doubling your starting price has forced me to look at other auctions. I'll keep you in mind, but for now, I won't be bidding.

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S shirleyMember
Thanks for the welcomes. Puppy, that's pretty much what I did the first time, but since I had sort of set myself up for it, I couldn't really complain much. It was the second appearance of the same item, and I mentioned to the seller that I had been outbid the first time... The new "opening" bid was about five dollars over my max in the previous auction. I sometimes tend to forget that sellers are business-people, not just fellow collectors eager to share!

And it's hard to know sometimes, when a relatively rare plant comes on the market, what the demand is going to be or how fast the seller will respond to questions. I hate to wait, and there's always the hope that no one else will be very interested. After all, how many bidders CAN there be out there who think that a variegated adenium obesum that FLOWERS is incredibly cool...? (Answer: more than you might expect!)
puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
I know what you mean about not wanting to wait to long to ask a question.

Jabber is right, if the item discription or picture is missleading, that's a valid reason to retract a bid. You can also ask nice that the seller cancel your bid. They don't have to, but if they do, it will save you from having to retract.

If the seller has good positive feedback, it's because other buyers have been happy with their purchases. They are not trying to misslead you, and you should be satisfied too. Also check the feedback and click on the auction numbers to see if they sell only this type item, or sell a little bit of everything. If they sell a little of everything, (and maybe even if they don't) you may know much more about the item than they do.

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R rosetsuMember
Hey!
This is a cheat!
The subject says the "case FOR bidding manually first, then sniping later", but everyone is making the case AGAINST.

So here are the pros.
1. Ebay goes wrong during the last minute of the auction. Noone else really notices, but I am laughing all the way to the bank! Big Grin
2. If a well known seller is offering an item at obviously well below its value, what is the point in hiding my interest?
3. The same regular sellers like me bidding early, so they offer me some nice extra bargains.
4. Other snipers don't like seeing lots of action on items early, so they look for something else that seems to have attracted less interest.
5. The most satisfying tactic in all Ebay is the sucker punch. Let some nibbler think they have crept past my proxy, then snipe them. Big Grin
6. It sometimes helps to find out whether or not I am likely to be buying an item before its auction ends.

The are often several snipers bidding for the items I like, which are usually difficult to value. If all the other serious bidders are sniping, the advantage shifts to the early proxy bid. I believe mixing bidding styles, including nibbling ( Red Face ), can work best.
J jabbergahMember
I'm not ALWAYS long-winded! Roll Eyes

Only when I'm "inspired"! Wink My latest inspiration was in the "I just found out about this..." topic! Eek

Yeah, the book... Well, you must admit it was a pretty entertaining read as bid analysis goes! I'm actually still pretty proud of it! I think I'll go back and read it again!.... Razz

Jabbergah                                                    
R rosetsuMember
I forgot about an important exception.

If there is a reserve, I guess what I would like it to be. I then bid to somewhere below it. I don't ask sellers for the reserve, because I would feel guilty if I deliberately underbid. If I am told the reserve, I usually go back to ordinary sniping.

I hope that an unknown reserve above the current price will discourage interest and put in a snipe for what I am happy to pay. Wink
bartelbybartelbyMember
quote:
5. The most satisfying tactic in all Ebay is the sucker punch. Let some nibbler think they have crept past my proxy, then snipe them


My personal Favorite!!

I am one who will sometimes proxy bid first, I do it to *test the waters* and many have tried to change my ways, but it works for me and I have often won on my proxy bid which has always made me extremely happy because that means I have won super cheap!!! In my mind, I like to think that if I hadnt proxy bid and just sniped, I would of paid more as some other nibbler might have come along and started the bid war up again.

Lexie

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