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51 replies

Only bid if there is already a bid option....

B binhongmanMember
Hello snipers and snipets:

I have been sniping for awhile and I believe sniping is the way to go for most auction situations. Here
is a situation which is not covered. First we have the sellers behaviour. Seller lists an item for
$150.00 and if it does not sell he then relists 3 days later for $100.00 ..

You want to:

Put in a snipe for $175.00 which is only executed if no one (I meant "someone" thanks puppy rasier) has bid on the item at the time that the snipe
is activated.

Reason: You don't want to lose the item but would rather bid on the re-list. So If there
is no bids at the time of the snipe you wish not to bid and hope that no one else gets a bid off in the
last few seconds. Obviously there is a risk that the item will not be relisted and your opportunity will
disappear but if you have analyzed the seller correctly you might be able to save a buck or two.
Last edited {1}
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puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
I think I see what you're saying. Is that a typo?
quote:
executed if no one has bid on the item at the time that the snipe is activated.
should that be: executed only if someone has bid on the item...

Interesting... you may be onto something there!

At present, there is no way to do that.

File a support case and make the suggestion to add that option. I'd be interested in what they have to say!!

... and WELCOME to the forum. Hope to see you post again!
B binhongmanMember
Here is what support case said:

I see what you‘re saying, but it seems a pretty high gamble that he‘ll 1) relist it, and 2) the relist will be that much lower to justify waiting.

I‘ll make your suggestion a Feature Request. My opinion isn‘t always the prevailing opinion.

michael
senior technical support

The case was closed so I guess he did not want my comment but I would say this is predicated on ones analysis of the seller. There are sellers who relist at a lower price as a matter of habit (relists dont cost anything or not much done within so many days). Even though he doubts this happens. It does and I would like a feature to support it. I guess I will support this with evidence for my next try at support case.
S snipersarabAuctionSniper Support
The problem is if someone puts in a 1-3 second snipe we probably wouldnt have enough time to detect it and place a counter snipe.

I understand what you want to do, and see the use but not sure there is a practical way to wait, but then also snipe if we need to. For example this would totally not work at 7:00:00pm. It would take far to long to detect if someone else sniped and placed a snipe.
B binhongmanMember
Hello Sniper Sara B.

In the case you mentioned you would lose. But I think part of this option would be that
understanding. So you might need to specify this feature in this way. Let us say that you
have the normal 5 second snipe. In order to
achieve the goal of this option you would have
to look to see if there is a bid some number of seconds previous in order to be able to execute the snipe if needed. You would probably always miss getting your bid in if a snipe was used to
put the bid in. I have a particular item in mind today and know that it will be relisted at a lower price. I realize that if I wait too long I might lose it to a sniper or to a last second bidder. I would like to not sit my computer to do something which is pretty good attempt at achieving my goal.
puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
Just because the support case is closed, that doesn't mean it won't be brought up and discussed, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Sara brings up a good point. It would be difficult to do with anything less than (I'm guessing here) 2-3 minutes, and would add a significant step to the bidding process for those that used it.

While it might work with many 'no bids' auctions (no snipers) you may end up disappointed at losing to another lower snipe because your bid was not placed or item was never relisted.

... still think it was a good idea though. Smile
B binhongmanMember
Just in case anybody wondered this is the
real example of this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3742077397&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3743153169&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

In this case if for example the initial inquiry was 30 seconds before the close. The
software would see no bid was made and not make
a bid which would leave this one for me to
bid on if I liked the new relist price. This
seller is totally predictable and that is why
this works most of the time.
C crushme4000Member
I am new to this forum but I can see that some people don't listen they just "chatter" here.
Binhongman was kind enough to give an example of what he is talking about and now chatter
there talks about generalization. He is the one making the generalization because binhongman
gives the specfic example of what he is talking about. I commend binghongman for his clear thinking,
accurate and germaine example.

I also see the problem that Sniper Sara B. alludes to. This feature
perhaps is just unwieldy and impractical and might create as many missed opportunities and
frustrations as it helps. Also it involves a level of software sophistication that maybe does
not warrant how rare this feature might be useful.

This is a fine discussion but there seems to be a little too much nonsensical chatter.
mrsmmrsmMember
Crushme4000, welcome to our forum!
quote:
I am new to this forum but I can see that some people don't listen they just "chatter" here.
Binhongman was kind enough to give an example of what he is talking about and now chatter
there talks about generalization. He is the one making the generalization because binhongman
gives the specfic example of what he is talking about. I commend binghongman for his clear thinking,
accurate and germaine example.
I really think you misunderstand Chatter, who BTW, probably has placed far more snipes under his belt than any of us ! I think he only meant that to make this change, it would be making it for all such cases and maybe that would not work.
Do we sometimes "chatter" here? Yep, we do! It is our forum and we enjoy it, however we do try to keep it in general. Sometimes we are just "bad"! Big Grin
C crushme4000Member
It is probably hard to wonder about the
mysterious way and means of a deity.
"to make that change, it would be making
it for all such cases and maybe that would
not work"

What are YOU talking about. From a deity that is the lamest
sentence I have ever read. Please explain
with examples if possible what you could possibly mean. If meaning was part of your plan.

Binghongman would like them to add an option which says. If you choose this option and only if you choose this option then bid on the item if and only if there are already bids.

What is "all such cases".

Chatter talked nonsense yours seem to eclipse that by falling to complete drivel. If I was the supergod I'd reduce your status to vapor sniper. This is fun I cannot wait for the next brilliant round by either chatter or Mrs. M.

Happy sniping
B binhongmanMember
Wow I am impressed. This is a pretty fun place. Ever since I discovered E-Bay I have had a different life and sniping is the most fun way to bid. And I can see that the snipers are a hale and heary lot. It is a warm night here and I am going to say up too late to watch the Olympics. I want to thank Crushme4000 for his insight into the simple but not so elegant (it involves two actions by the sniper software) option I would like. I would really like this option because at least two sellers that I deal with put a perhaps little bit too high price the first time and then lower it on the relist to something more palatable and they do this with absolute regularity. I think Crushme4000 was a little hard on the chatter and Mrs. M. even though I must say I have no idea what there problem is with my suggestion. They said nothing that made even the least amount of sense in my opinion.

I do see though that for the Auctionsniper this may be just too complex and prone to be misunderstood and thus create hard feeling because of a fairly high chance of it not executing a bid because it misses the fact that someone has bid close to the deadline. The Auctionsniper may be unwilling to expose itself to unhappy sniper(ette)s. I will still use this Auction Sniper for my normal snipes but I am off to try convince another service to do this one for me. If I have luck I will post it back here. And I guess if I have no luck I will post it back here. Maybe all the snipers will come to the same conclusion that this is a grief creating option (for them). Keep the snipe you great guys and gals till later.....
C chatterMember
quote:
Originally posted by binhongman:
I think Crushme4000 was a little hard on the chatter and Mrs. M. even though I must say I have no idea what there problem is with my suggestion. They said nothing that made even the least amount of sense in my opinion.


Sorry if you could not follow. All I meant was that what you describe with your seller(s) did not hold true with my sellers, i.e., they do not necessarily relist items as automatically as yours did when no bids are received. I surmised that this varies greatly by seller and the types of items each one sells. Probably not enough for AS to set up such a scheme.
rickrickMember
quote:
Originally posted by Chatter:
Yes, his lack of grammatical and syntactic prowess
Funny stuff.

Well, how do I put this without getting this forum’s grammatical/syntactic checker activated?

Here goes: Not everyone took the time to master “grammatical and syntactic prowess” – what ever that is.

Funny stuff.
mrsmmrsmMember
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by binhongman:
I think Crushme4000 was a little hard on the chatter and Mrs. M. even though I must say I have no idea what there problem is with my suggestion. They said nothing that made even the least amount of sense in my opinion.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sorry if you could not follow. All I meant was that what you describe with your seller(s) did not hold true with my sellers, i.e., they do not necessarily relist items as automatically as yours did when no bids are received. I surmised that this varies greatly by seller and the types of items each one sells. Probably not enough for AS to set up such a scheme.


And, I was NOT giving any opinion on the subject, rather stating the person misunderstood what Chatter said!! And this sums it up for me! Roll Eyes
D daveMember
Thank you, Jake. I had "lost" my job and did not have much time to come to the forums; plus, I took two different vacations during the past three months. "Lost" really means that my position was eliminated and I was transferred to another department; same job title, same pay, just no time to go online at work anymore. Oh, and the new job STINKS (I would have used a different word here, but....) big time!!! I used to get out on the road several times a week and now I am stuck in an interior room where the only window looks out on an aisle full of bus parts; not very scenic. Now I have a second line for the computer at home, so I can spend as much time online as I want. Hmmmm, that may not be so good! Big Grin Especialy if ebay is one of the places that I visit!
R rosetsuMember
Hi,
This topic caught my eye, because I know sellers who do what the OP describes, but my strategy is normally to do the opposite of what the OP wants to do!

I am trying to eke out a limited war chest, so, if an item is offered for less than I am prepared to pay, I don't expect to buy it even cheaper! Items offered up to 20% below my maximum are my top sniping targets. Then of course there is the option of asking a seller to add one or two recent unsold items to the one I have just sniped. Wink

My experience is that I often see items fail to sell at reasonable prices, but, after sellers relist at even lower prices, they sell well above the original listed price.
B binhongmanMember
Hello Rosetsu:

It seems like after a long hiatus we are returning to some semblance of real discussion.

I am not sure that I understand what your case is that is "an item is offered for less than I am
prepared to pay, I don't expect to buy it even cheaper". For me if I see something that is offered
for less than I am prepared to pay I would just bid (or snipe) on it. I guess the only time that
I would wait on a relist in this case would be if I noticed that many articles of this type or by
this seller got relisted for less when not sold. Then I might I guess try to "buy it even cheaper" especially
if only marginally cared about the article. However, This is not the case in the particular auction
which ends today that I am interested in. I thought the original $150.00 was too much and in this case I think
that the current $120.00 is too much and I don't think this item will be relisted less because of my analysis of
the behaviour of this seller over more than a few years.

I agree with your statement that I have also seen items which originally did not sell sell for more than the
original price when relisted. And I also like Puppys suggestion and your amendment to that suggestion of
buying on the QT and your way of doing it more within the Ebay rules. Thanks Rosetsu......

Now a little bit of discussion and a harangue. I need a spelling checker here and I am lazy. My expertise is in
Chinese art but I would say without reserveration that every piece of Chinese art (painting) (except by perhaps bad luck for the seller) sold that is supposed to be anything at all (I mean by somebody known) is a fake. In the normal
auction world Sothebys and Christies the number of good paintings is poor and on ebay it is non-existent. The paintings
which are done by Chinese (nobodies) are terrible. In contrast there are not many Japanese paintings sold that are
by known people. And the paintings range from poor to fair to not bad. In the case here that is the example for my
discussion this is a japanese painting by someone known. Probably with a 50% chance of being a fake. Therefore I
cannot really pay much for something I cannot examine in person. Thanks for your patience in reading this.
Love
to all sniper(ette)s.

It is really the way to buy. I cannot think of scenario where sniping does not assure you the
best price (except for a the rare missed snipe) and protects you against impulse buying.
D daveMember
quote:
I cannot think of scenario where sniping does not assure you the best price (except for a the rare missed snipe) and protects you against impulse buying.

Funny, I was just thinking about this very subject and came up with one:

Dutch auctions

I just won one and it would not have mattered if I sniped; in fact, one might lose if one sniped in a Dutch auction as the first (or an early) bidder might win all of the items.
puppyraiserpuppyraiserMember
Sorry Dave, I don't get that. Sniping a dutch auction is actually easier than a regular auction because you can see all the bid amounts.

Pups rules for dutch auctions:
  • Be sure you know how dutch auctions work
  • Try not to bid on all the items.
  • If you only want 1, bid your max, and bid late.
  • Review bids 10 minutes before auction end
I just made that up, so the list might grow. Wink
D daveMember
quote:
Sorry Dave, I don't get that. Sniping a dutch auction is actually easier than a regular auction because you can see all the bid amounts.

As I think I understand it, the LOWEST sucessful bid sets the price for all of the items, I will have to go back to ebay and read up on them. I just won a Dutch auction for 2 of the 25 items available and that is what brought it to mind. After checking, it turns out that I was the only bidder so I guess that it didn't matter.
J jabbergahMember
Puppy,

Don't know if you remember -- long while back someone posted an extensive note about dutch auctions and how sniping on them was not a good strategy. The poster presented a convincing case that the appropriate approach to dutch auctions was to bid your MAX as EARLY as possible. I don't remember the poster's name or the topic title. Maybe somebody can find that post again.
R rosetsuMember
Hi binhongman,
I thought we were considering items for which we would bid, but would prefer to take the chance of paying less after the item fails to sell. I suppose I was saying that I am confident enough of my own judgement to prefer to take opportunities to buy as the only bidder.

Your comments about Chinese and Japanese paintings are interesting. I agree that a signature by a well known painter should normally be understood as "in the style of" rather than "by". My impression is that there are lots of good value (Japanese) paintings available, but I do not have the money or space to collect them. Also, paintings that are really good, rather than okay, will cost a lot of money. Unfortunately the okay paintings are often effectively anonymous, because they have implausible famous signatures. Also, you need to look much closer than most Ebay scans to judge the quality of the brushwork. I am not sure what you mean by the "terrible" Chinese paintings. Do you mean recent commercial work mainly in black ink for tourists, or the old "silk" paintings with bright colours?
B binhongmanMember
Hello All again:

BTW I was successful in my bid for the reduced relisted item. If I had only had my wished for
option I would not have had to sit glued to the computer while the olympic medals were being won waiting for the auction to close and poised to insert a bid if someone decided they wanted the item in the last few 30 seconds.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3742077397&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

I have a friend here at work (he did not understand it either) who might help
me understand what "I am confident enough of
my own judgement to prefer to take opportunities to buy...bidder" means. I often
have trouble with the English language especially if I perceive ambiguity. So I will
comment on this later perhaps.

My option request really covers pretty much exactly what
the example that I have given illustrates. Here is suguri who offers a painting at $150.00. I know that when (s)he lists things like this for this much money that they rarely sell and that (s)he will relist them later at a reduced price. I would like to have the automated opportunity to bid for this item. Otherwise I have to sit at the computer or just decide to chance it completely (depends on when the closing time of the auction is). I guess I could write my own software to do this because the timing is always a problem for somebody like AuctionSniper (I see). Maybe I could develop an auction api. If I do that I will let you all know and distribute it. I am a developer of software by trade.

Now on to Chinese and Japanese Paintings. It is kind to understand it as "in the style of" rather than "by" and I think that that is a good attitutude to have. I would say that virtually all the painting offered on E-bay (recent commercial) or old? silk paintings or some other designation, are just nastily bad.
The term "good value" is very appropriate here. I would say that there are many Japanese paintings sold on E-bay which are of good value while the Chinese paintings sold are almost never thus. I really have never bought Japanese paintings until I saw them on E-bay and I see them as good value for the money.

Here is one example of Chinese painting that is nasty....
*****************
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38124&item=3740410747&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
This is a nice Chinese antique water colour couplet, It is painted on rice paper, well painted the chinese excellent calligraphy couplet by LIU YONG (1719-1804). Please don't miss such a beautiful work of art. Bid with complete confidence! This work is very highly recommended.
***************

http://www.chinapage.com/calligraphy/liuyong/liuyong01.html

http://hkma.lcsd.gov.hk/hkma/coldb1.nsf/a9a40795c80e27de482563310029dfb2/eeca148dceb55a6d482563b00028abe9?OpenDocument

The above two are real. I can see that the copyist could only master one part of LIU YONG's calligraphy. The couplet shows that the characters are quite variable thin and flowing and sort warm and stocky. The fake has only stocky characters really a much simpler composition.

A fair LIU YONG calligraphy couplet would be $4000 dollars or more. This seller has 100% satisfaction. My problem with this piece is that LIU YONG is one of my favourite calligraphers whose subtle work is stunning. This probably recent fake (probably with artfically aged paper) the paper looks bad is worthless and nasty. Sothebys and Cristies will sell a fake LIU YONG which will probably at least have some age. Chinese painting is in general a sad state. Japanese painting does seem moderately healthy. I have been able to buy Japanese painting from my use of the internet and have them authenticated by the experts such that I have good confidence in one's ability to get real Japanese paintings. For chinese this is not true there are only very few dealers that are trustworthy (knowledgeable) in the world. And auctions and E-bay are pathetic. Too bad because good Chinese painting are amazing. Thanks for your patience all.
Last edited by binhongman
R rosetsuMember
Well, I do not know nearly enough about calligraphy to collect it, apart from safe, cheap examples like Japanese sake jars.

However, even I can tell that your nasty example looks like it could be the menu at a cheap Chinese restaurant, especially after comparison with your good examples.

Sorry about the bad grammar in my last post. In any case, we clearly deal with different buying environments. I mostly deal with sellers who only have a small minority of unsold items, and I compete with (or try to avoid) aggressive bidders, many of whom are snipers. It sounds like you have less competitive bidding and a much larger proportion of unsold items. I can see that your proposal could be useful in your circumstances.
R rosetsuMember
By the way, I agree with you about how good Chinese painting can be. Once every two years or so I go to Tokyo. The National Gallery there always has at least one or two superb Chinese paintings on display. Closer to home, the Ashmolean museum in Oxford has a new gallery that usually displays fine examples of relatively recent Chinese painting.
rickrickMember
binhongman,

I have a feeling a lot of sellers, and buyers, are creatures of habit, which makes them fairly predictable. This might be more the case in higher priced or lowered volume (probably redundant) items. What�s �typical� for something at $250, may not be �typical� for something at $25. The price of something must have a fairly substantial impact on an auction�s �dynamics�. As an example, adding $25 to a $250 item is only a 10% increase, but adding $25 to a $25 item is a 100% increase.

It seems that nibblers stop nibbling as the auction draws closer to a close. You could possibly improve your odds of sniping a non-bided auction by giving your snipe to AS at some predetermined, guesstimated time before auction end (Say an hour? Others might have a better suggestion.). That could work favorably against proxy bidders, but won�t do much good against another sniper.
mrsmmrsmMember
quote:
It seems that nibblers stop nibbling as the auction draws closer to a close. You could possibly improve your odds of sniping a non-bided auction by giving your snipe to AS at some predetermined, guesstimated time before auction end (Say an hour? Others might have a better suggestion.). That could work favorably against proxy bidders, but won�t do much good against another sniper


Not sure I quite understand the reasoning, Rick. Could you expain the advantage of doing this?

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