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22 replies

How is this possible? Human or computer?

B butch17Member
This question refers to eBay auction # 260567275031.

I just lost the item because I was outbid, and I am not upset about that, but I am writing because I am puzzled and I want your opinion about how this happened.

There were a total of 2 bidders (myself and the winner), but 9 bids total according to eBay. (This is not unusual, as it looks like the other person placed multiple bids, etc.) However, what's unusual are the *times* the bids were placed. Consider this:

I had an AS snipe set up with a 6 second lead, and a max of $23.23.
It looks like it went through as planned.

However, the other person placed bids at:

34 seconds prior to close (believable), at $17 (below)
and
20 seconds prior to close (also believable), at $17.50
and
4 seconds prior to close (now I am starting to wonder if it's a human or a sniping service), at $18.95
and
4 seconds prior to close, at $23.73 (human or snipe via computer?)
and
3 seconds prior to close, shown at $23.73 (human or snipe via computer?)
and
2 seconds prior to close, shown at $23.73 (human or snipe via computer?)

I know that eBay's proxy bidding normally does its thing and does not report extra bids unless someone actually placed the bids. So, I am inclined to believe this is done multiple times but via a sniping service (considering that the times make it practically impossible for a single human to do).

What do you think happened here? Is there some sniping service that automates bid escalation? I'd like to understand this for future reference, when I am looking at an item I really care about! :-)


-------Info Copied from eBay's Bid History on the item --------


Bidders:2 Bids:9 Time Ended: Mar-14-10 17:43:22 PDT



t***b ( private ) US $23.73 Mar-14-10 17:43:22 PDT

t***b ( private ) US $23.73 Mar-14-10 17:43:20 PDT

t***b ( private ) US $23.73 Mar-14-10 17:43:19 PDT

t***b ( private ) US $23.73 Mar-14-10 17:43:18 PDT

3***n ( 316 ) US $23.23 Mar-14-10 17:43:15 PDT

t***b ( private ) US $18.95 Mar-14-10 17:43:18 PDT

t***b ( private ) US $17.50 Mar-14-10 17:43:02 PDT

t***b ( private ) US $17.00 Mar-14-10 17:42:48 PDT

t***b ( private ) US $10.95 Mar-12-10 19:22:47 PST

Starting Price US $9.95 Mar-11-10 16:43:22 PST
Original Post

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rickrickMember
Perhaps someone else has seen a bid pattern like that. It’s a first for me. No one has ever reported something like that on this forum. The closest was AS placing 4 identical snipes with the same timestamp, but that’s because they use multiple servers and ebay didn’t have enough time to prevent duplicate bids from the same bidder. There are even two different bid amounts with the same timestamp (17:43:18 PDT). Sure is a lot of sniping for a $24 item.
B butch17Member
I am still trying to figure this one out... Rick, you make a good point about multiple snipes from multiple servers, but of course those are for redundancy (in case a server fails) and are supposed to be at identical time stamps and identical amounts. Do you suppose this is what happened here, plus eBay had a glitch where the identical snipes were acknowledged at different times by eBay? If that's the case, and, say, we assume that any bid placed within 7 seconds of closing time was an automated snipe (not by a human), this would mean that my AS snipe was acknowledged by eBay as a single bid (i.e., eBay was able to disregard identical bids sent by AS on my behalf), but choked on a total of 5 identical bids sent by some sniping service on behalf of the other bidder (including, as you point out, 2 bids with identical time stamps of 17:43:18 PDT).

Does this seem believable? I appreciate your thoughts, Rick! If anyone else has any experience with this, please add your comments.
rickrickMember
That’s as good of an explanation as any, butch. Another theory would be that the sniper used multiple sniping services, or had multiple sniping programs, or had multiple PC’s. Again, sure is a MAJOR overkill for a $24 item, but then, maybe that’s the last item he/she needed for his/her collection, or he/she has a thing for pit bulls. It is definitely a first for this forum.
B butch17Member
OK, Rick, I think your comments have helped me crystallize my thoughts.

These are the 3 theories (the 3rd is your idea):

1. eBay choked selectively: dealt with my AS snipe correctly, but choked on the other bidder's single snipe service (which placed 5 identical bids at identical times). [Possible, but unlikely.]

2. eBay did not choke. The other bidder used a single sniping service, and that service had 5 servers place identical bids, but those 5 servers were not synchronized. [Possible, but unlikely.]

3. The other bidder used multiple sniping services/programs. This certainly could explain the lack of synchronization but as you point out it would be major overkill, at least for this particular item. Though I can imagine someone setting this up as their sniping system in general, regardless of any one item, on the belief that this makes it more foolproof than any single but reliable sniping service (effectively false, but a comforting belief). [Possible, not so likely.]

Of these 3 theories, I am inclined to believe the 3rd.

Thanks again for your input, Rick.
cameracameraMember
Very strange.

Not seen anything like that before.

One possible and simple explanation is that he was bidding from the office, his wife from home and/or he also had a sniping service!

Overkill or what for a cheap item! Though I must say I was tempted to ask my son to bid on a sports car three weeks ago when I thought I might miss the end of the auction. I also set up a covering snipe, so I actually did two of those things just to make sure!

Paul
M martiMember
Some interesting ideas, i think there is a glitch....
I think there is a ghost in the machine - been using sniper for many years and this is strange.
Any ideas?
Look at the time stamp and the unusual increments.
My bid was placed with 5 seconds remaining, it appears that it just added my maximum bid into ebay.

Bidders:8Bids:27Time Ended:16-Mar-10 17:19:05 AEDSTDuration:5 days
, you're the winner!
Automatic bids may be placed days or hours before a listing ends. Learn more about bidding.
Hide automatic bids
Bidder Bid Amount Bid Time
e***z( 71) AU $253.00 16-Mar-10 17:18:59 AEDST
n***h( 3 ) AU $250.00 16-Mar-10 17:03:52 AEDST
e***z( 71 ) AU $212.50 16-Mar-10 17:18:59 AEDST
n***h( 3 ) AU $210.00 16-Mar-10 16:53:39 AEDST
n***h( 3 ) AU $204.50 16-Mar-10 16:53:39 AEDST
k***a( 5 ) AU $202.00 16-Mar-10 14:51:47 AEDST
n***h( 3 ) AU $200.00 16-Mar-10 11:37:22 AEDST
M martiMember
Hi Rick,

THanks for the link, it wasn't about the increment but the time line.
I was watching the item at the time and at 5seconds to end the highest bid was $210 by n*h at 16:53:39 I assumed AS would have it at a little higher at 17:18:59
The next bid in this Ebay readout goes back in time to 17:03:52 and when I was looking on Ebay didn't exist.
This item should have been won at $212.50 by myself e*z.

I don't understand how this other amount $250 was entered into the bidding especially strange as it was just below my maximum bid of $253 and also doesn't compute in the time log.

Also n*h has two bid placements at the same time at 16:53:39 raising his own bid. Whats that about if not a glitch/hack in the program.

I am definitely missing something here.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
rickrickMember
First thing, click on the “Hide automatic bids”. It only distorts the bidding.

quote:
I assumed AS would have it at a little higher at 17:18:59
Why?
quote:
The next bid in this Ebay readout goes back in time to 17:03:52 and when I was looking on Ebay didn't exist.
“Didn’t exist” and “didn’t see it” are two different events.
quote:
This item should have been won at $212.50 by myself e*z.
Wrong. You aren’t considering n***h’s $250 bid
quote:
I don't understand how this other amount $250 was entered into the bidding especially strange as it was just below my maximum bid of $253
Often happens. $250 is a nice, round number. People like to use nice, round things – saves endangered brain cells.
quote:
also doesn't compute in the time log.
Looks normal.
quote:
Also n*h has two bid placements at the same time at 16:53:39 raising his own bid. Whats that about if not a glitch/hack in the program.
It’s not a “hack” or a “glitch”. Click on “Hide automatic bids”.


Would be an improvement if you posted a link to the auction.
M martiMember
OK, so everything 'looks normal' including a 15minute time lapse in the log which of course is an Ebay issue.
Fair point about the $250 bid and agree with you regarding the normality of the bidding psyche.
Regarding semantics of existing, assumning it was there then your first response is the answer 'hide automatic bids distorts the bidding' i.e bid $212 with the delayed timeline?

The repeated message is that Hide automatic bids DISTORTS the bidding.
So basically don't press this button because it doesn't work and gives an incorect idea of the bidding process.
Seems reasonable and this is not an AS issue.

Thanks for your input. M
region2region2Member
Your snipe went in as a max bid 6 seconds before the end and you won by virtue of ebay's Proxy Bidding system - I guess your max bid was higher than or equal to 253.

What show/hide automatic bids does is show the 'thought processes' that went on in the process. So your bid arrived when NH was showing as high bid of 210 although s/he had actually bid 250. Luckily your bid was higher and voila, you're now the proud owner of a ______________!

BTW, don't give R|ck the auction number - he'll just ridicule your taste in clothes/cars/marital aids in a bid to hide his own insecurities!

R2
rickrickMember
quote:
Originally posted by region2:
I guess your max bid was higher than or equal to 253.
Region2, no need to “guess” and Marti’s max bid wasn’t “higher than” $253 BECAUSE of the following reasons:
quote:
Originally posted by Marti:
... my maximum bid of $253 ...

Also, region2, the increment at AU $250 is $5. Seeing that Marti won the auction by less than an increment, that should also make it apparent that his max bid WAS $253.

Here’s a link for you, region2, so you can brush up on how ebay increments work:
http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/buy/bid-increments.html

Let me know if you need additional info regarding increments, region2.
H hrukMember
I've seen something similar to this kind of bidding before but on a Spanish antiques website.

h*****n Puja privada 140,00 EUR jueves, 29/10/09, a las 00:33:39
arteactual ver perfil 138,00 EUR jueves, 29/10/09, a las 00:33:39
h*****n Puja privada 136,00 EUR jueves, 29/10/09, a las 00:33:39
arteactual ver perfil 134,00 EUR jueves, 29/10/09, a las 00:33:39
h*****n Puja privada 132,00 EUR jueves, 29/10/09, a las 00:33:39
arteactual ver perfil 130,00 EUR jueves, 29/10/09, a las 00:33:39
h*****n Puja privada 128,00 EUR jueves, 29/10/09, a las 00:33:39
arteactual ver perfil 126,00 EUR jueves, 29/10/09, a las 00:33:39
h*****n Puja privada 124,00 EUR jueves, 29/10/09, a las 00:33:39
arteactual ver perfil 122,00 EUR jueves, 29/10/09, a las 00:33:39

It goes on and on quite a bit but you'll get the gist.

I only put in one bid not all the ones that are shown (I'm the winner) and it looks like the website kept upping the competing bid until it was exceeded. Maybe the website was just showing what was happening behind the scenes.

However, this doesn't normally happen on eBay. A mystery.

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