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6 Second Lead Time, Bid at 43 Seconds....

S siwebMember
Yup...u heard me right....i lost a bid on auctionsniper on an item i really wanted...set a 6 second bid, it bid at 43 seconds and i was the high bidder, that is until the 2nd highest bidder could leisurely take his friggin time and put in a bid to outdo me....seems i could better than my own manually!!!!

[auctionsnipersux removed from title of the thread]
Last edited {1}
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region2region2Member
Let me guess - it was on an item that ended on the exact 1/4, 1/2 or hour on a Sunday? That time when eBay is at its busiest and AS has to adjust the lead time to reflect this...

I suspect you would have been beaten anyway - it's not the last bid that wins, it's the highest bid that wins and it's unlikely that anyone can beat you with 45 secs to go. Try it for yourself next Sunday!

R2
rickrickMember
Help yourself Smart, but I doubt it will do any good. There’s been plenty of evidence on this forum that multiple manual snipes can be placed on Sundays within 40 seconds. There are some that believe that since they can’t do it, or they haven’t tried, then no one can do it.

Now, let me see if I have this straight – it’s not the last bid but the highest that wins?

Siweb – just for kicks, could you post the link to the bidding history?
L letitflyantiquesMember
Please!
Is there a more stupid statement than "it is not the last bid...it is the highest bid."
There cannot be a more trite and silly reply. Why is it the mantra here? Obviously, the high bid wins. What news! We all know that. The issue keeps coming up because AS does not consistently place bids when the bidder expects them to be placed. I understand why though i don't agree with the reasoning and think bids should always be placed at the designated second.
It seems to me thay this issue could be put to rest if AS would simply send each new memeber an email explaining why bids are often placed earlier. Just make it clear up front and there would be far less ticked off bidders. I think you should be able to opt for an "always place my bid at MY designated time, regardless" option.
And anyone that cannot place a bid in the last 10 seconds has serious computer issues. And to say that it is unlikely anyone could bid in the last 45 seconds is just inane.
SB Sniper Bill (Guest)
Hello Everyone,

While this 'horror story' sounds bad, let me explain what really happened in this case (I looked up the auction) but will keep the usernames and item numbers private.

We did place the bid early, but the auction ended at exactly 6PM, a very busy time and we compensated for this by bidding early to make sure we did not miss this item. Sounds horrible, right? Better to bid early then have the bid not be placed. Well let me show how this effects the result with facts:

Bidding History:
User B $313.49 17:59:55
siweb $308.49 17:59:17
User A $265.00 17:59:28
User A $209.01 17:59:18

Taking into account the proxy system, this is what transpired (*most people can not read these histories correctly and jump to incorrect conclusions):

Auction ends at 18:00:00
Time - High Bidder - Current Bid
17:59:18 - User A - $209.01
17:59:17 - siweb - $211.51 (the increment is $2 siweb actually bid $308.49 but $211.51 is the next increment over User A)
17:59:28 - siweb - $270.00 (User A bid again - $265, pushing siwebs proxy bid up to $270)
17:59:55 - User B - $313.49 (siweb max bid was $308.49, this bid is just the next increment via the proxy system on eBay) *

User B wins the item.

As we say all along, the highest bid wins.. not the last. Sniping only avoids bidding wars.

So let's reflect. What does this tell us? That even if we had placed our bid at 17:59:59 of $308.49 for siweb, User B would have won the item with his snipe!!! * What amount did User B actually snipe? We will never know as the amount shown will only ever be the next lower bid plus the bid increment. For all we know his snipe was $500. There is 100% no way that we lost this item by placing the snipe early. In fact, when the winner (User B above) placed his snipe the max bid at the time was $270.

* What people ALWAYS overlook is that your max bid is hidden, eBay only shows the next bid increment (because of the eBay Proxy Bid system).

We have been doing this for years, I honestly do not think I have ever seen an item * NOT WON because we sniped early. Items are lost because someone else is willing to pay more.

* correction - there is one confirmed case out of the millions of snipes we place where a user has lost the item due to an early snipe.

Thank you,
Bill
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S sfgiantsnativefanMember
quote:
As we say all along, the highest bid wins.. not the last. Sniping only avoids bidding wars.


Well I'm not dumb enough to fall into a bidding war, so if the thinking that the "high bid wins" was correct then AS would be completely useless to me. If I didn't know that there is a real and practical value to slipping in my bid immediately before the close of an auction I might as well forgo this service.

Get real. Sniping is all about having the last shot, being the hammer. A well timed snipe doesn't guarantee a victory but it does provide an advantage.
S smartMember
quote:
Sniping is all about having the last shot

Couldn't agree more.

Ok, in the above example user B would've won whenever siweb's snipe was placed; but what if user B wasn't playing? User A placed a bid and wasn't winning so immediately bid again. If siweb's snipe hadn't already been placed (early) user A might well have sat back expecting a win and not placed that second bid.

quote:
As we say all along, the highest bid wins.. not the last.

Err... didn't the last bid win this auction?!
quote:
So let's reflect. What does this tell us?

Well, a bid placed at 5 seconds won this one so...
SB Sniper Bill (Guest)
Smart:
A. User A was only the high bidder before siweb bid. After that siweb was the high bidder until User B sniped an amount greater than siwebs snipe. Remember (and this is critical), siwebs max snipe was hidden via the proxy bid system. User B had no idea what siwebs snipe amount was. User B may have been sniping $1000 for all we know.

B. The last bid won this auction because it was the highest bid, NOT because it was the last bid. This is a classic example 'circulus in probando' (circular reasoning). "The last bid won in this case, so all wins must be the last bid." Obviously this is flawed thinking.

I think it is time to breakout our tips sheet, which should help clarify some of the confusion:
Tips Sheet
S smartMember
My thinking is most certainly not flawed. If you read my last post I have already accepted user B's inevitable victory in this auction. I was supposing that B hadn't got involved and pointing out that A bid once and then bid AGAIN because he or she wasn't winning as siweb's snipe had been placed too soon. As it happened A didn't bid enough to win anyway, but early snipes allow others to re-bid and can lose auctions.
In fact, in this case user B is a good lesson for others (including all at AS) about how to win. Of course you have to bid more than anyone else, but do it very near the auction end; and that's 5 seconds not 43!
I also don't need proxy bidding explained to me (thank you very much), and nor do I think that only the last bid can win. I do however think it's important to be a VERY late (and possibly final) bidder to prevent others bidding in retaliation (IT HAPPENS). Isn't AS is supposed to be about placing bids like that?
M marMember
The "highest bid wins" response is far too simplistic. There are several ways in which a premature bid can cause the bidder to lose an auction or can cause an auction to close at a higher price.

Bidders who collect a certain item often become known to the community that collects the same. One major benefit of sniping is being able to keep ones interest hidden until the last seconds. When AS places the bid ~45 seonds before close, it gives other collectors a chance to decide if they are willing to pay more than their original plan. (They are able to get a better idea of the ballpark price needed to win.) Had they not known the collector was bidding on that particular item, they may not have bid so high in the end.

The "highest bid wins" response also ignores the fact that bidders are often convinced to bid more on auctions that have more bids/seem more popular. If AS snipes weren't placed so incredibly early, the bidders manually sniping wouldn't know more bidders were interested and might not bid enough to win. Having an AS snipe placed so rediculously far in advance just gives the competition time to re-evaluate their bidding plans. An extra bid often encourages others to bid higher.

I know I can easily place mutiple bids in the last 45 seconds of an auction. I find it unbeleivable that AS couldn't estimate the traffic better. Being off more than 35 seconds, or 600% is just ridiculous. AS, how do you explain such a huge overcompensation?

I know I will not be using AS to place my bids on Sunday evening in the future unless AS shows an effort to better estimate the traffic.
rickrickMember
quote:
Originally posted by mar:
I know I will not be using AS to place my bids on Sunday evening in the future unless AS shows an effort to better estimate the traffic.

Mar,

This appears to be a dated issue/thread. Take a look at this post of Sara's (AS employee):
https://community.auctionsniper.com/eve/forums/a/tpc...641017221#3641017221
Since Sara's post, no one has commented on this forum about these early kind of snipes.
rickrickMember
quote:
Originally posted by mar:
Problem is, I came to this board today because I had this very thing happend to me early this evening. I had set my snipe time for 6 seconds and the bid was placed 43 seconds before the end of the auction.
Damn, and this was looking soooo good.

quote:
Originally posted by mar:
Does AS disclose the lead time they give at various times?
[If I’m understanding the question] AS doesn’t have preset lead times. AS adjusts (pads) the seconds when it senses that more time is needed to get the snipe placed at the requested lead-time (kind of like leading the target). It does this based on the current traffic at ebay. Don’t know how they do this, and don’t know what they consider “current traffic” (30 seconds before auction end? 1 minute before auction end? 5 minutes before auction end?).

quote:
Originally posted by mar:
Is it possible they placed the bid 45 seconds before the auction close?
Not sure anyone but AS’s staff can answer this. If you don’t get any better input, and are still curious, you might try contacting AS: http://support.auctionsniper.com/
T timfMember
This just happened to me last night. Asked for a 5 second time frame, bid placed with 28 seconds left, allowing another bidder to MANUALLY rebid several times, costing me an extra $75. Customer Service no help. I thought the purpose of this was to bid in the final seconds? How can they change the time that I requested? It was counter productive, resulting in AS creating time for a bidding war. Something is wrong here!
I ibsnipingMember
quote:
Ok, in the above example user B would've won whenever siweb's snipe was placed; but what if user B wasn't playing? User A placed a bid and wasn't winning so immediately bid again. If siweb's snipe hadn't already been placed (early) user A might well have sat back expecting a win and not placed that second bid.



I have to say that I've experienced this situation, albeit self-imposed.

I had already set a snipe through AS, but when the first bid came in on the item a few days before the end, I recognized the bidder as someone I've bought from *and* sold to on ebay. So out of a personal sense of honor, I canceled my snipe and bid early, deciding to give the other bidder a fair chance.


Here's how it played out:

1) Starting bid was $14.99. The other bidder's max was $15.01.

2) Upon deleting my snipe, I manually entered my max of $41.00.

3) Down to the wire, the other bidder tried to snipe twice: he entered $20.01 with 20 seconds left to go, and then with 10 seconds left, he entered $25.01.


So I won at $26.01 BUT -- because we were the only two bidders, I would have won the item at $16.01, had I stayed with my originally planned snipe. I'm not complaining, of course, about paying more money - after all, it was my decision to play fair this time. But the conclusion is clear: If your snipe goes in too early, then at best, your final price can go higher, and at worst, obviously you can lose the auction entirely.
M marMember
quote:
2 manual bids in 28 seconds - that's going some!

I suspect they were snipes, already set up.


R2,
Not at all. ebay now has a "bid again" screen that comes up immediately when the first bid is too low to overtake the highest bidder's max. (The bidder is notified that they have been outbid.) The bid amount box is right at the top of the screen and a second try can be submitted in a second or two.
mrsmmrsmMember
quote:
So I won at $26.01 BUT -- because we were the only two bidders, I would have won the item at $16.01, had I stayed with my originally planned snipe. I'm not complaining, of course, about paying more money - after all, it was my decision to play fair this time.

If I were the other person, I think I would have felt better if you had sniped it rather than run me up!
J jabbergahMember
quote:
... So out of a personal sense of honor, I canceled my snipe and bid early, deciding to give the other bidder a fair chance....

...the other bidder tried to snipe twice: he entered $20.01 with 20 seconds left to go, and then with 10 seconds left, he entered $25.01.
Odd that you think sniping is dishonorable.
Interesting that the other guy didn't!
rickrickMember
quote:
Originally posted by I. B. Sniping:
I had already set a snipe through AS, but when the first bid came in on the item a few days before the end, I recognized the bidder as someone I've bought from *and* sold to on ebay. So out of a personal sense of honor, I canceled my snipe and bid early, deciding to give the other bidder a fair chance.
I couldn’t find where I. B. Sniping says, or thinks, that “sniping is dishonorable”. In fact, his/her ID might lead me to believe just the opposite.
I ibsnipingMember
Nah, I don't think sniping is dishonorable. But it undeniably DOES give an advantage. In this particular case, the other bidder was someone who I'd previously had several good ebay transactions with, so I felt that it was the right thing for me to do to level the playing field.

Mind you, the auction was for an item that I was definitely interested in, but one that I wouldn't have been devastated to lose out on either. If it was something I absolutely couldn't live without, I probably would've sniped it regardless.

And yes, it's interesting that the other bidder sniped, but that's OK - even if he had won the item. The possibility of being sniped is always part of the game.
H honcho2Member
Back to the original topic once more.

My bid was placed 19s instead of the desired 3s before the end of auction. And I think, this the problem here. I'm paying for the AS service to have my bid placed at the time time I choose to.
I understand that AS tries to compensate bid placements in some high traffic times. But this routine seems to be flawed. 45s instead of 6s in the original posters case or 19s instead of 3s in mine are not good enough.

Here is my recommendation. Instead of long lectures of 'the highest bid wins' which borders on insulting the users intellegence, improve the AS software! I would rather have an option "place the bid at the advised moment even if it might fail during peak times" than have a bid placed too early.
A avatar1Member
Well I can't say I'm surprised this is still an issue at AS. It was a problem 18 months ago and it still is now. I will make the same recommendation I made then:

AS should update their FAQ and other literature on the service and state that they may pad bid times to ensure a bid is placed. Either that, or bite the bullet and place bids when the customer chooses and start letting people LOOSE their auctions because their lead times were insufficient.

I’d rather see the forums with responses like, “Look at when the auction ends and adjust your lead time accordingly,” rather than speculations as to why AS places bids early on high-ticket items. It only makes the operation look shady to new users when it happens to them.

After all, AS already has warnings that small lead times will result in loses, but no warnings for time padding. (Well, unless you read the forum)

If you want to know more just search my old username: pallbearer. (I was muzzled for making these suggestions in the past.)

Summary: Snipe time pads: old known problem; learn to deal.
M marMember
I was very surprised the first time this happened to me a couple years ago. I was surprised because I remember reading an AS tutorial that discussed choosing times appropriate to the ebay traffic patterns. It said that longer lead times would be needed on Sunday and/or auctions ending on the hour, for examples, or one would risk having a bid not make it through before the auction close. So, I was really shocked when AS further padded the lead time. The first time it happened I ended up paying much more for an item because someone got in a subsequent manual bid after their first one was too low to beat my AS snipe. I have since lost a few items as a result of others getting more than one bid in after AS placed my snipe. Yes, I mean the same bidder placing a second bid (or a third bid in one case) when their first wasn't high enough to beat the bid AS placed for me well in advance. I've had several AS snipes reach ebay more than 40 seconds prior to the end of the auction. That is no help at all.

As with several snipers above, I would much prefer to have the bid not go through than to have the bid placed far in advance. That way, if it doesn't go through it is due to my incorrect lead time choice rather than AS's faulty time gauge. At least I can control and learn to adapt the former.
S snipersarabAuctionSniper Support
quote:
I would much prefer to have the bid not go through
I can arrange for that. Then we'll see you back here complaining 10x as much. You might think that's the case, but I am certain more people would rather have a bid placed, than a bid missed, even if that means a little early.

We arent changing our policy on this. More users would be mad at missed bids than are mad about early bids.

This topic is closed for discussion.
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