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If there is only one bid on the auction and that bidder retracted their bid or the seller cancelled it then the BIN will return. I found about this in the eBay bidding board! Here's how I used it to my advantage.

Recently I wanted to BIN an auction. But the widget was quite expensive and I didn't have the cash in my checking account to do so at that point. So I put in a min bid to kill the BIN and waited. My original intention was to snipe the widget using another ID. A few days went by then a check I was waiting on cleared so I could afford to BIN the widget. But of course the BIN had gone. There were no other bidders but I KNEW there would be others bidding on this widget at the end because it was very desirable. It could easily have gone way up over the BIN price.

Asking the seller to cancel is risky because there can be a gap between them cancelling & the BIN returning and you finding out about this. In the gap another bidder could sneak in and BIN it. I didn't want this to happen.

Anyway I have 2 domains and can set up to 50 e-mail addys on each, so there are plenty of IDs I can set up on eBay. I could afford to have a retraction on the record for one of the IDs (the one I had used to bid) so I retracted the bid and then used another to BIN the widget.

A lot of people would say this is unfair - like reserving the item for yourself until you are ready to pay for it. But that's how the rules work and they are there to be manipulated. The seller was no worse off financially and was not aware of what I had done. All she knew was that I BINned the item and paid her by Paypal later that day.

You may care to remember this tactic if you have more than one eBay id and you are waiting on say your pay to get into the bank. Of course, you have to be prepared to have a retraction on one of your IDs so I would advocate this only to be used if, like me, you can create plenty of IDs. Or for very special widgets that you MUST have. Big Grin null Red Face Red Face Red Face
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I doubt that this is acceptable - the eBay bid retraction page says:

It is OK to retract a bid if...

You accidentally enter a wrong bid amount. For instance, you bid £99.50 instead of £9.95. (If this occurs you will need to quickly re-enter the correct bid amount.)
The description of an item you have bid on has changed significantly.
You cannot reach the seller. This means that you have tried calling the seller and his or her phone number doesn't work, or you have tried emailing a message to the seller and it comes back undeliverable.
It is NOT OK to retract a bid if...
You change your mind about the item.
You decide you can't really afford it.
You bid a little higher than you wanted.
You bid on multiple listings of the same item and you don't want to purchase all of them.

I think what you are doing is fraud.
Hi, AMH. You've hit the nail on the head. I'm a fraud investigator for major international corporation and you've chosen exactly the correct term to describe this so-called "tactic." It goes against the rules CLEARLY stated by eBay.
Mad

Besides, in the situation Sneakysniper describes, it's a waste of time and effort. Just because I may win an auction by using 'BIN' doesn't mean I have to pay for it instantly. I have NEVER seen an auction that didn't allow at least 7 days for a payment to arrive after the end of the auction. Especially, since a lot of sellers accepts money orders and would have to allow time for the mail. If all you have to do, is wait a few days for a check to clear, then go ahead and 'BIN' the auction, wait a few days, then send your payment thru paypal. No mess, no fuss, and most importantly: NO FRAUD committed. Wink
I invite you all to look closely at the text that amh apparently copied and pasted directly from ebay:

"It is NOT OK to retract a bid if...
You change your mind about the item.
You decide you can't really afford it.
You bid a little higher than you wanted.
You bid on multiple listings of the same item and you don't want to purchase all of them."

No where does it say that what sneakysniper is doing is wrong. In the good ol' U.S. of A. it ain't illegal 'til Congress is in session, right?
BUT, let's be REALLY honest. ANY businessperson who is in business to make money will agree with me: If you can manipulate the rules, find a loophole, etc. then you do it. If what you are doing is really that bad, it will be outlawed or the loophole closed, etc., sooner or later, right?

I know what ebay says about exceptional circumstances, etc. But if ebay cannot prove that the bid retraction did not qualify under "exceptional circumstances" then it is not wrong. Right? In AMERICA, if they can't PROVE you pulled the trigger, then you didn't pull the trigger (regardless of whether you actually did or not).

Let me further say that I don't necessarily endorse what sneakysniper is doing or feel that he/she is of great moral fiber. But, as an American businessman, I cannot justify holding someone to MORAL rather than legal standards. I mean, we all have to keep it under 65 on the freeway, but whether I cheat on my wife (just an example, chill out!) or cheat on ebay is my business. If you feel it is your business, write your congressman.
If it's legit, then you should use the same ID. Once you use another ID it's fraud and go to jail time.

The page I posted from starts "Please remember that every bid on eBay is binding". It then lists circumstances in which a bid may be retracted. If the circumstance is not listed there, the bid can't be retracted. The second section of when it is not OK to retract is by way of example.

Andrew

I imagine the executives of Enron and WorldCom had very much same attitude: "No foul if I don't get caught."

However, point in fact, the 'tactic' described by Sneakysniper IS expressly against eBay rules and eBay will, and HAS, PERMANANTLY suspended members when caught using such tactics.
Being compared to Enron execs.......that hurts!

Anyway, amh and star_trkr, I'm glad you guys didn't really bawl me out. I guess I just feel that there are so many other, worse ways to do wrong, that what sneakysniper is doing is not that bad.

You're probably right. I'll give you both that. I guess I'm looking at the big picture, and, in the big picture at least, it doesn't look that bad.

Want to know what really bugs me, though? The Catholic church (sorry if any of you are Catholic) spent $200,000,000 to build a church in LA. Let me spell it out: Two-Hundred Million Dollars!

Do you realize how many people that could feed, clothe, and house? Or how many enslaved people could be bought out of slavery in Sudan? (Yes, slavery still exists.) How many acres of rain forest could be bought and protected? Shall I go on? 200 million bucks! But the Catholic church is not the only one. The US gov't does sit, too. Oh, well.

Anyway. I guess I'm worried about the big things and the small things don't bug me as much.

You're right, though. Maybe the way to a btter world is the small things. Like not cheating on ebay.
Hi, Big-bus-fan.

I don't know many people who actually ask for an "I told you so." I may get on a soap box now and then, Razz, but I do try not to say I told you so too often. But if you really, really want one, I guess you can consider this it if it'll make you feel better. Wink


Obviously you've got a good sense of humor. If we all keep a sense of humor, especially about ourselves, life is so much more pleasant. Big Grin

You're right: even the little things can make a difference. Smile Smile
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Relieved!!!

Thank you, star! I guess I was having guilt pangs and an" I told you so" was what I needed.

I DO have a good sense of humor. Sometimes I like to stir things up for the sake of conversation. I find that if everyone just agrees with what is the apparent "obviously" correct thing, we sometimes miss some rather important considerations.

For example, during the standoff in Waco, Texas, I asked, "What if David Koresh is the Messiah?"

Whew!!!!! I BARELY outran the lynch mob!! I mean, I didn't actually think that might be the case, but it's important (academically) to at least consider both sides of ANY issue. And, so you know, I'm your average joe, with a wife and two kids and a mortgage. I just like to think about things before coming to a conclusion. Although, generally, I will come to the same conclusion as all those lynch-mobbers.

But, thank you, star, for not bawling me out too bad.

And, amh, while there may be nothing more to say, I still love ya, and you can't stop me! Razz

I'll see ya guys.

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