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33 replies

Snipping against "Double Bidder"

P parnassusantiquesMember
Interesting bidder--bidding twice with same amount: 3 hours before close of bid anaxxx had bids placed on separate days for the same amount, 305.00 & 305.00 (ana was the 2nd and 3rd highest bidder. I snipped on this at 365.66.
Ana outbid me for 370.66 and 370.66--twice!. I know I was lower than Ana but "Don't get it", how Ana could bid the same amount twice on separte days and out bid me twice for the same amount at 370.66? Have read Sniper/EBay info on "bidding against self", but how was ana able to bid against herself at the same amount. How did ana do this and what was ana trying to do to outbid? Appreciate replies and discussion, (refer to link below for actual auction results).

Keith.

Related URL:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=3155999373
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

M magicsniperMember
Something looks pretty funny there. It should have indicated the $305.00 bid which outbid happy4u2b. Perhaps ana60441 bid higher than 365.66 but she beat you by the bid increment of 5.00.

The only other thing I can think of is the bidder was kept private, but not sure how that is done unless it is a private auction.

I'd recommend reporting it to eBay and have them give you an explanation because not seeing that higher bid did not allow you to bid higher.

Interesting though, how much higher would you have bid and I wonder if it would have gone through?

<-M->
B bookferretMember
If Ana's first bid was $305 as I suspect it would not show now with that value as the value just was raised through your own snipe until it beat you. On Nov 18 it should have shown up with $ 305 (do you remember her bid sitting there?) but then the same bid by Ana got escalated to $370.66. As it is the same bid (by proxy), it should only show the final value at the end.
Still don't have an answer re the second bid of ana - sorry Confused

rickrickMember
parnassus' snipe was $365.66. ana's 1st proxy bid was $370.66+. No way of knowing what the bid was. ana probably got nervous and thought it would be wise to raise his/her proxy bid. ana's 2nd proxy bid was $370.67+. Since ana's 1st proxy bid was within the next increment, ana's 2nd proxy bid only had to be higher, but both proxy bids were greater then parnassus' snipe.


J jabbergahMember
Hey Rick!

I think your analysis is probably dead on accurate and turned a light on in my mind!

I, too, have wondered in the past why a winning bidder would have more than one top winning bid at the end of an auction. Sometimes the bid dates didn't make sense either. If I understand you correctly, it is the result of the winning bidder placing a max.bid, then reconsidering and placing a HIGHER max.bid (not necessarily placed the same time or even day). If BOTH max bids end up being higher than all other bidders, BOTH will be shown at the top of the heap as the winner at the next highest increment.

With your clear explanation, you have significantly improved my post-auction bid analysis understanding!

Thanks! Smile

Jabbergah Cool
rickrickMember
Jabber,

I'll take a stab at it, but I understand we have a very tough critic in the audience.

quote:
Originally posted by bookferret:
I always thought the bids are listed in winning order and not necessarily in time sequence?

It is.



quote:
Originally posted by bookferret:
In this case her bid would have been $ 305 with proxy as previously assumed.

ana's 1st bid wasn't $305. At the time that was the price to get over the $300. The bid history shows that ana's 1st bid was at least $370.66.
Last edited {1}
B bookferretMember
quote:
words of wisdom by Rick: ana's 1st bid wasn't $305. At the time that was the price to get over the $300. The bid history shows that ana's 1st bid was at least $370.66.


I try, I try Eek but how can you be so sure? What am I missing? If Ana's first bid had been by proxy, would it not have been $ 305, then later increased due to the snipe and now just showing as $ 370.66? It's the same bid?
I am so confused Confused Confused Confused

rickrickMember
quote:
Originally posted by Mrs.M:
If this is so, why was the snipe placed?


At the time of the snipe, $305 was the current price (actually I think it was $304.99 - starting price was $299.99). Both ana's bids were at least 370.66.

Sorry, I'm not doing a very good job on this one.


JABBER?
Last edited {1}
B bookferretMember
ok, based on assistance from someone much smarter than me (my hero at ebay), I think this would be a good explanation:

ana60441 US $370.66 20-Nov-03 08:54:33 (oops better raise my proxy in case someone bids more (parnassus.antiques had not placed their bid yet)

ana60441 US $370.66 19-Nov-03 10:21:56 (second bid - proxy would have shown as $310.00 until 3rd bid)

parnassus.antiques( 141) US $365.66 20-Nov-03 12:30:14 (3rd bid - not enough to beat the proxy)

happy4u2b( 368) US $300.00 14-Nov-03 15:39:59 (first bid)

What do you think Smile

J jabbergahMember
Gather around kiddies...
it's STORYTIME!!! Big Grin

Once upon a time there was a widget offered in a 7-day ebay auction (or was it a 9-day??). Anyway, the minimum opening bid was $299.99.

ana..........$370.66..........Nov-19-03 13:54:33 PST
ana..........$370.66..........Nov-18-03 15:21:56 PST
parna........$365.66..........Nov-19-03 17:30:14 PST
happy........$300.00..........Nov-13-03 20:39:59 PST

About 6 days before the auction ends, Happy places a $300 bid (the very first bid!). If you look at the auction screen at this point, it shows 1 bid placed, the winning bid at $299.99, and Happy as the winning bidder.

About 1 day before the auction ends, Ana places a bid for an amount we can’t know. What we DO know is the bid is for MORE than $370.66. For the sake of this explanation, lets say the amount Ana bid is $380. If you look at the auction screen at this point, it shows 2 bids placed, the winning bid is at $305 (one bid increment above Happy’s bid), and Ana is the winning bidder.

Maybe before Ana’s bid, maybe after, Sniper Parna takes a look at this auction and decides to snipe it. With the current winning bid showing $305, Parna decides to snipe a bid of $365.66 and sets up a snipe on Auction Sniper with a lead time of 8 seconds.

Then, about 3 ½ hours before the auction ends, Ana gets nervous! While holding the current winning bid at $305 with a max proxy bid of $380, Ana is concerned somebody might snipe a higher bid than that! Ana REALLY wants the widget, and decides it is worth $420 to her. So Ana places ANOTHER bid (bid#2) for $420. (Based on what we can see in the bid history, all we really know for sure about Ana’s 2 bids is that BOTH of them are MORE than $370.66. They could be $400 & $450, or $371 & 400, or $500 & $1000, etc.! For this story, we’ll just say Ana’s 2nd bid $420). So at THIS point, Ana has TWO bids on this item, both of which are HIGHER than the winning bid showing on the screen. If you look at the auction screen at this point, it shows 3 bids placed, the winning bid is still at $305, and Ana is the winning bidder.

Then 8 seconds before the auction ends, AuctionSniper places Parna’s bid for $365.66. BOTH of Ana’s bids are higher than Parna’s. If you look at the auction screen at this instant, it shows 4 bids placed, the winning bid is at $370.66 (one bid increment above the $365.66 snipe), and Ana is still the winning bidder. That’s how the auction ends. As you see in the bid summary, BOTH of Ana’s bids have “floated” to the top, because both of them are AT LEAST 1 bid increment more than the next highest competitive bid (the $365.66 snipe).

I think that pretty well sums it up! While we can’t know exactly what Anna bid (either time) for the item, I think we can recognize the obvious! – Ana REALLY wanted the thing! Eek

If anyone thinks this analysis is faulty Confused, I’d be interested in hearing an alternative explanation.

"...and they lived happily ever after!"

Jabbergah Cool
mrsmmrsmMember
So what you are saying is the snipe was placed At 8 sec. and after that, the proxy was forced up higher than the snipe, but Ebay only shows when the proxy was placed, not the ending time when it outbid the snipe? And btw, jabber, Rick nor I have EVER claimed to be experts. Quit the opposite. We all learn from everyone as you will too. Wink

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mrsmmrsmMember
Yes, because I had it in my mind that as a proxy was placed, it would also show...as it got higher. That is what threw me the whole time. That's why I could not understand why the snipe was even placed. Otherwise, I was looking for it to show the proxy time that it actually outbid the snipe.

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J jabbergahMember
Rick!

I could only dream my scribblings could approach the calibre of "literature"! Wink Or even nobel prize quality! Eek But thanks for the thought! Wink

Wonder if Parna, the OP, has seen all these posts/replies to this topic? Wonder if Parna better understands what happened in that auction?
I'd hate to think my nice little story might not even be read by parna! Frown

Snipe on!

Jabbergah Cool

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