Help!! Seller is trying to charge me extra fees!

Its always a dicey matter when there are no actual shipping charges noted in the auction.

To me it does look like he is trying to get a little extra out of his auction by charging you a large handling fee.

I found this in the ebay HELP section....

quote:

---

Can a seller charge the buyer additional fees on top of the final bid or Buy It Now price of an eBay item? Yes, in three instances.

Sellers may charge the buyer for reasonable postage and handling fees, providing the payment of these fees by the buyer is disclosed up front in the listing. A postage and handling fee can cover the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging and handling the item. Postage and handling fees cannot be listed as a percentage of the final sale price.
Sellers may charge the buyer for the costs associated with using a third party escrow service if the seller indicates in the listing that an escrow service will be accept at the buyers expense, or if the buyer requests that an escrow service be used.
Sellers may choose to accept payment in a different currency to the listing currency. In these circumstances the seller may charge the buyer for any costs associated with currency exchange, provided the costs are disclosed and agreed to in advance by the buyer.

---

It may be worth emailing him that section, or that may just be waving a red flag in front of a bull. I wouldnt worry about your feedback - if you get Neg'ed, you can reply and tell your side of the story. I know some ppl are really worried about getting a negative, but I dont see 1 Neg for a silly reason as a big worry.

I never bid on an item unless I know the shipping up front anymore, I dont like the shock at the close of what I thought was a bargin.

Good Luck - Keep us up to date

Lexie

quote:

---

What should I do from here?

---

Sorry - got sidetracked

Some options - (I need that disclaimer again)
*email him your concerns about the excessive charges and send him that section from ebay. Then possibly meet him half way and offer to pay him HALF of his handling fee (if that is at all acceptable to you).

Depending on whether you really really want the item at that price, and how reasonable he is, I would inform him that you will be renegging on the deal and giving him the NEG that he deserves.
I would reneg on the deal then sting him with a NEG with a comment about overcharging which may make others think twice about dealing with him.

Of course - he will surely give you a NEGative and a Non Paying Bidder warning.

Tough Position!!

Lexie

Sorry, Lexie, this time I have to disagree. It's not exactly flashing neon, but the seller's terms DO state "Buyer pays S&H" and it looks to me like these items might need special/careful packing. I have no idea how much a reasonable "handling" charge would be, but if he's paying for packing materials I can see where it might be a big added expense. He should have stated it in his auction, of course, but then you could have asked before you bid, too.

I think you have to pay it. But it might be worth a quick email to the seller first to see if you can get more info about this charge. Be sure to be positive and non-confrontational -- it's so easy for an innocent question to start a flame-war, especially when a seller thinks the buyer might be trying to back out.

If it were me, and I got surprised by the "handling" charge (see below -- I learned the hard way!) I would send him a polite and non-threatening email, asking him to explain what the $10 shipping fee covers, and explaining that it would have made a difference in my bid if I had known in advance. Keeping in mind, of course, that I didn't ask in advance even though his auction suggests that I should contact him for the total. Also, he's got 100% positive feedback so far, even though he hasn't sold very often.

My story: I once ordered three items off a dutch auction, from a seller who charged me a total of $12 "combined" S&H. Then he took a freebie Fedex mailer, cut it apart and turned it inside out (so the "Fedex" wouldn't show), wrapped the plant cuttings in a single paper towel, dropped them in the box, and shipped the whole thing by US Post Media Mail. Total shipping charge to him: $1.85 plus a paper towel. He also included an "invoice" that contained a VERY rude form letter, to the effect that any negative feedback from his customers would immediately result in a retaliatory negative, because "That's the way this game is played". That's what I get for not doing my homework...

[This message was edited by Shirley on January 20, 2004 at 11:01 PM.]

No need to be sorry Shirley I was just offering an option.

I'd say by SnipeSnake's original post that this transaction is past the *ask nicely stage* as the seller as already been reported to ebay. I'd say the confrontational part might already be in progress.

If SnipeSnake had asked what to do and they hadnt already done the email and reported to ebay scenario I would of offer up the exact same thing as you.

Its been my experience in the past that if you bid and dont ask the shipping costs up front - you pay whatever the seller wants to charge you.

Bugger about your experience too - what a cretin to send a note like that.

Lexie

Personally (and after hundreds of won auctions) I would consider $10 handling as unreasonable. I would politely inform the seller that while you would really like to complete the sale, you are on a limited budget (good one to use!) and can't really afford this surprise fee. You might also want to include the text about what additional charges sellers can place - it clearly says reasonable. If the seller retaliates by giving you neg feedback you may have recourse with eBay - whom you already notified of a questionable listing.

I just had a good one where the seller specifically stated they take credit cards. I really dislike having to tromp down to my local grocery store and buy a money order (their desk is open days - I live at night). When they sent the winning bid confirmation email they said, 'as of today we don't take credit cards'! I sent them a nice letter telling them that since they neglected to update the auction description (their credit card processor had actually ended business 3 days earlier) I was going to have to back out of the transaction. Haven't heard anything from them, but I *did* save a copy of the auction page just in case I have to fight a negative feedback

Mother Mary Says, 'HONESTLY! you're just ruint!'

I make it a habit to ALWAYS ask if shipping charges are not included, providing my city and ZIP. If I do not receive a response before the end of the auction, I do not bid, period. This would be particularly true if the shipping charge would be the hinge on which the deal hangs.

Some sellers use UPS, which is usually higher than regular USPS. The $10 charge may include the box and packing materials, as one might find at a shipping outlet.

I got caught by this recently - I did a BIN on an item whose location just said "UK" and didn't think about the postage.

When the email contact was made the person quite honestly said that they like to make a little extra on the postage because the products they sell are so cheap. That was all fair enough - even with the postage and packing it was very cheap, but when I got the parcel I saw that it was from the town nearest my home - just by where I work!

In that situation I would have offered to pick it up rather than wait a week for it to arrive by post, and pay extra to get it sent.

However, as I said it was excellent value, the widget is lovely, and I just put the experience down to the limitations of eBay's way of telling you where people are. I once bought a widget that I thought was coming from the UK that was actually being shipped from Singapore!

SuperSqueaky

SS,

Based on your experiences, maybe "UK" means "UnKnown"!

Jabbergah                                                    

Here's what the seller said the $10 charge is for (I did ask him politely before reporting to eBay):

"I am shipping from zip 17508, it's 18 lbs, quote is from the ups site, reg ups ground: $17 to your zip, plus 10 handling (says in the auction). I am liquidating gear for several companies and the inventory manger requests a handling fee for smaller priced items like this... "

He is refusing to budge. Here's what makes me really angry: He's trying to screw me, but if I don't pay he'll NPB me and I'll have a strike against MY account! Meanwhile eBay will likely do NOTHING to him. How fair is that?!

I'd pay it and be done with it. It will never happen again, right?
(hopefully because you'll ask first next time)
We all make mistakes, sometimes we have to pay for them.
I know I have!

A buyer has the responsibility to clarify any ambiguities in a transaction. "h" is an ambiguity.

Better a $10 h, then a $25 h.

I agree with Chatter. I never, never bid on an item unless I know in advance the total shipping and handling charges. It is, of course, part of the item's total cost, so it is a "need to know" before bidding. If a seller sells something "really cheap" and then tacks a high shipping or handling, then it is in my opinion a scam of sorts, especially if it is not stated. However, if you bid blind to this, you owe it, bottom line. Finding out all details is the bidder's responsibilty.

...for SnipeSnake!

I tend to agree with seemingly everyone else weighing in on this issue. You're stuck! I too have had the occasion of having a GREAT DEAL being turned into a NOT SO GOOD DEAL because of the s&h. I paid the amount and considered it a lesson lernt! Perhaps you should consider the $10 tuition for your lesson lernt!

Be sure to nail down ambiguities in the future.

Jabbergah                                                    

Not much you can do IMO, other than not do business with this seller again.

Lessons learned are not always easily swallowed, but never the less not easily forgotten.

Its a Lose/Lose situation. You dont pay you get a NPB, you pay you are left with that sour taste in your mouth.

As you can see from the majority of us here, we have all learnt the hard way.

Buggeration!!

Lexie

I suppose I wear rose colored glasses. I've bought a lot of things from people who just said "Buyer pays shipping and handling" without asking for the price. The charges have always been within a buck or so of what UPS charges so I never had a problem.

Anyway, I worked something out with the seller. He didn't realize anyone would have a problem with this but he agreed to put the $10 fee on all of his future auctions. If he does this, and based on the deal I made with him, I'll leave him + feedback. If he doesn't, though, he's getting a neutral at best.

quote:

---

Originally posted by SnipeSnake:
If he does this, and based on the deal I made with him, I'll leave him + feedback. If he doesn't, though, he's getting a neutral at best.

---

Glad to see that you agree with the advice that everyone gave you.

Not any more!

Jabbergah                                                    

My rose coloured glasses have faded to a very unattractive dirt colour

Lexie

No, not any more.

Thanks to all of you for your friendly responses and advice!

quote:

---

If he does this, and based on the deal I made with him, I'll leave him + feedback. If he doesn't, though, he's getting a neutral at best.

---

If it were me, I wouldn't leave ANY feedback.

quote:

---

the inventory manger requests a handling fee for smaller priced items
and
He didn't realize anyone would have a problem with this

---

Sorry, I don't believe either of these statements. If this person has been on eBay for more than a few months, I think it's safe to assume this handling fee has come up before.

You were taken advantage of. I think that was his/her intent. Which would be easier. 1.) List fees in description... or 2.) answer all those 'How Much Is S/H' emails.

If you leave honest feedback he will retaliate with neg for you. If you leave positive, you still may get that neg for being a ‘thorn in his side'.

Sorry Puppy, I have to disagree.
I would leave appropiate feedback, whether you think its worthy of a POSITIVE, NEG or NEUTRAL.

I always think of the big picture, how do others find out about shonky sellers (or buyers for that matter) if everybody is too scared to leave feedback?
Sellers dont change their ways when they have undeserved 100% positive feedback. But if they have 4 neutrals that say sometime like - Love the time - didnt appreciate the excessive handling charges. They would start to think about changing their ways.
I dislike retalitory NEGs too, but that seems to be part of the game. I wont hold back feedback because I am scared of a NEG though. An unfair NEG that has been appropiately responded to is no big deal. I have a NEG and find it doesnt harm me at all, selling or buying, and have been waiting expectingly for the next as I have NEG/NEUTRAL'ed a few recently but there hasnt been any fallout.
We might as well throw the feedback system out the window if ppl are going to hold off rather than say whats needed
Just my opinion

Lexie

Lexie, I agree with you. If I feel someone should get a neg, I give it. I don't understand why people are so darned afraid of giving it when it is deserved. If they neg back, so be it. Otherwise, as you said, what is the purpose?

Hi Lexie, .... (edit... and Mrs.M)

Actually we agree, but SS seemed concerned about getting a neg, and my advice was to help avoid that. (don't give a neg, but don't give a pos either) Maybe I should have been a little more 'wordy'.

You're right, those very active on eBay should not be concerned about it, but someone with little activity or new with very little feedback might be more concerned than you or me. One neg in a thousand is 0.1%, One in ten is 10% and may stay on your first page of feedback for a year!

Ahh Puppy I see - LOL the same situation as I was in last nite with my comments.

I can understand your logic with a newish ebayer, but they still shouldnt be concerned with a neg...I never look at the %'s, as you pointed out, they dont mean anything in the big scheme of things. IF a bidder bids on my auction and has a crappy feedback, I dont stop them, I just hound them a little harder for payment and dont muck around before giving them a NPB.

Lexie

Bed time here, Night all.

I've got 65 feedback (100% positive). A neg would suck, but wouldn't be the end of the world.

Reason I said I'd give him positive feedback is because he really seemed shocked and said he'd change his auctions to reflect the fee. I'll watch him like a hawk, and if he actually changes his auctions, then I'll give him a positive (assuming the goods are OK, of course). The only reason I'd leave a neg is to warn other buyers, but if he does this himself, there's no need.

If he doesn't, however, he will get a neutral or neg depending on how the rest of the transaction goes now that I've paid him. I'll wait until the last second to leave it so he doesn't have a chance to give me one in return.

I have to agree with the majority, pay, swallow pride, and learn lesson, bitter as it is. I wonder if Ebay will even bother to investigate your report.

I too have had S/H shock, but mine was even worse in one sense. The S/H was openly posted but in the heat of the chase for this item I choose not to see it until pay time.

I object in general to padded S/H and will no longer bid unreasonable ones.

happy sniping

quote:

---

Originally posted by SuperSqueaky:


When the email contact was made the person quite honestly said that they like to make a little extra on the postage because the products they sell are so cheap. That was all fair enough - even with the postage and packing it was very cheap...

SuperSqueaky

---

Squeaky, it might seem fair enough to you, but I think eBay would see it differently. The way I hear it, padding the S&H to make up for a low selling price is called "Fee Avoidance" and it's against the eBay TOS... I'm glad you got a nice widget out of the deal, though.

Snake, it sounds like that's the same thing your seller is doing: "the inventory manger requests a handling fee for smaller priced items like this... " Sounds like Fee Avoidance to me...

I think you're right on target on the feedback question. Wait 'til you get the stuff, then if it's as described, received in a reasonable amount of time, and well packed, and if he's reformed himself in future auctions, leave him a positive and write it off as a learning experience.

On the other hand, he doesn't have very much feedback yet, and only about a dozen as "seller" (plus another 14 on his other selling id). So if you want to go a little further, you might leave a positive rating with a comment like "Nice widget, fast shipping, but unspecified handling charge seemed excessive. I should have asked." (is that less than 80 letters?). Just in case a pattern forms. That way you're not hurting his score, but you're leaving a subtle warning for future customers. What's the point of feedback if no one ever says anything but "Super transaction, friendly seller, Would do business again"?

quote:

---

If he doesn't, however, he will get a neutral or neg depending on how the rest of the transaction goes now that I've paid him. I'll wait until the last second to leave it so he doesn't have a chance to give me one in return.

---

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but >>>Click Here<<<. You wont be able to leave it till the last second so he cant leave one in return (its a bit of a slog, but there is a great link in there to leaving feedback after 90 days)

Lexie

quote:

---

Squeaky, it might seem fair enough to you, but I think eBay would see it differently. The way I hear it, padding the S&H to make up for a low selling price is called "Fee Avoidance" and it's against the eBay TOS... I'm glad you got a nice widget out of the deal, though.

---

I suspect my ignorance on that was due to the fact that I've never sold anything (yet). I didn't realise that the fee was calculated on the price of the item.

I priced the widget I wanted in my local PCWorld and it was £49.95, and including the postage and packing I got it for £18.95, so you can see why I wasn't too bothered. It's difficult to pull out of a deal once you've pressed that BIN button - I'm not sure if I'd have the guts to do it.

I am quite concerned about getting negative feedback - perhaps wrongly I feel that it might make sellers wary of me. I have noticed though, that a couple of people I have had very good transactions with (and for whom I left +ve feedback) haven't left anything for me. That's a pity, really.

SSqueaky

I *like* my 100% positive rating.

After that horrible transaction I mentioned earlier, I went on to the ebay community board to get some advice on how to word a sledgehammer of a neg in 80 characters or less... Knew I would get neg'd in return, but didn't really care -- this guy deserved it.

Instead, I got into a discussion about retaliatory feedback with several sellers who did a very good job of convincing me that even one neg on my record would hurt pretty bad. One guy even went so far as to say that he would cancel my bid and "block me so fast my head would spin" if I had even one neg against my 50 or so positives -- wonder if he was joking? Or maybe he was my seller in disguise?

Their view was that since the guy *had* actually sent the merchandise in a reasonable amount of time, and the merchandise was as described and wasn't damaged by the shoddy packing, the cretin actually deserved a POSITIVE instead of a negative. Never mind that he was rude and verbally abusive, that he made a huge profit on handling charges ($12 in undisclosed s&h for an $8 sale on plant cuttings from his back yard that he shipped for $1.85, give or take a paper towel), that he committed MAIL FRAUD by using media mail to ship plants, and that he openly stated that he would retaliate against all neutrals, negs, and insufficiently positive positives.

In the end I let them talk me out of using the sledgehammer, and decided not to decide. I left no feedback at all. In retrospect, I probably should have at least left a neutral, but of course I'm much wiser these days... (Hah!)

Shirley

If I have time, and am really interested in buying an item that is over about $50.00, even if everything is clearly stated in the listing, I often send an e-mail to the seller who has less than a 99%+ rating asking a question. If the seller does not bother to reply to my question in a reasonable amount of time, I might choose not to bid, because I figure the seller who can't be troubled with responding to e-mails before a sale, might not be responsive after the sale if a problem arises. (Wow, those were two long sentences.)

I too will not bid if they don't respond to email in advance. Always makes me wonder what they are hiding!

Gosh, I don't think I have said "hello" to you,yet, drummerdad!

Hiya Drummerdad

Afternoon Mrs M

I am with you both on this one. When I email a seller to ask a question and they dont answer, I usually think they are hiding something and then I debate whether to bid or not.

When I was a very new ebay chickiebabe I got stung once when I had bid on an item then saw the over inflated shipping amount. I emailed the seller well before the close of bidding to see if they would ship at the actual shipping cost and they didnt bother replying. I sat there and hoped and prayed someone would come along and outbid me but I was stuck with the bloody thing. THEN I got the email saying shipping was as stated.

As a Seller I try and log onto email several times towards the end of auction as you will often get questions when your item is towards the top of the list. Sometimes its hard to do this and I will often see questions after the close of auction. I always email those ppl and let them know I am sorry I missed their question.

Live and Learn!!

Lexie

That is a good policy you follow, Lexie. Communicating with the bidders is very important....and G'Day to you!

quote:

---

Snake, it sounds like that's the same thing your seller is doing: "the inventory manger requests a handling fee for smaller priced items like this... " Sounds like Fee Avoidance to me...

---

I agree, but eBay doesn't care. I received a response from their Safeharbor department today. In a nutshell, it said: "The seller has done nothing wrong. If you don't pay we're going to take action against your account."

Makes me want to go start my own eBay. One with morals, integrity, and teeth to backup my policies. I would, if I thought for a second I could attract enough customers to break even on the thing.