Anti-Snipe Auctioneers

If you want the item complete the transaction and let him leave you a negative.

If he is a squaretrade seal holder you can then use them to dispute it.

Or just leave him a negative too. Negs dont hurt buyers at all, but they're not good for sellers to have.

What a poor sport.

He has 13 negs in 5000 positives. I'm sure he wont like another negative.

Only like 20% of his items even get bids. And of those 20% almost all of them are for the minimum bid. So what does it matter if someone snipes his crummy items, I'm sure the one you bought was nice though

I wouldnt advocate posting his username here though since his items are only 2.99 + 95 cents shipping many would be tempted to snipe just to leave him a negative.

And what about that feedback policy of his! Wow, L-O-S-E-R. Because of the # of bids he gets he doesnt leave it or expect it? Yet he has time to check when you placed your bid!

I would turn him in to ebay your bid should be honored. I'm really getting tired of sellers expecting buyers to follow all of their "terms" and "fine" print, when they won't follow it themselves. errrr

Absolutely. I would tell him that you did nothing wrong and that you will hold him to the contract, just as when one bids on eBay (at least manually, lol) one is reminded, before clicking on that submit button, that a bid is a BINDING contract.

I think I would forward his e-mail to eBay. According to eBay, sniping is perfectly legal, so he's breaking their rules. And by threatening negative feedback if you complete the transaction he's totally out of line.

After reading all of the above comments, I'm emboldened to reply that I do, indeed, want the item after all. Maybe I should write something like "After seeking counsel ..."

Btw, he supposedly also keeps a blacklist of snipers from whom he will not accept bids. Again, is this within the spirit, if the not the legal parameters, of eBay T&S?

He has the option of blocking specific bidders from his auctions. EBay offers that feature to sellers. But to arbitrarily say "I'm not going to sell you this item because you sniped it" is a violation of the basic contract that eBay has always harped on as existing between buyer and seller. As you say, you've done nothing illegal, and it sounds as though this seller has gone into an area of abuse which may get him sanctioned by eBay. I most certainly would do one or the other -- insist on delivery of the item after payment, or complain to eBay. I just don't advise that you threaten the seller by saying if he doesn't come across with what you bought you'll report him to eBay. That would be just as bad as his threat to leave negative feedback for you.

He ought to read my reply to pervinpatty.

I've decided to go the route of notifying eBay, if only to make them aware that this is happening. Other than that, I'm going to ignore what happened and avoid placing any bids with this guy in the future. Thanks all around for the support and advice! It's greatly appreciated.

You'll be doing future bidders a favor and this seller might get a jarring attitude adjustment.

that's quite a story.... it might not be worth the hassle/negative feedback BUT:

1. definitely save the email from the auctioneer, which is essential to your case.
2. you can always ask ebay what they recommend that you do, before you actually file a complaint. i suspect this auctioneer has done something illegal in ebay's view; the threat the dealer made also might negate the dealer's ability to leave negative feedback, in which case filing your complaint would have no negative side for you. but check first.

allen

After carefully reviewing the snipers complaint pertaining to a Seller not wanting to complete transaction on the item the sniper "sniped" & won bid, and further after reviewing the "Expert Sniper's advice & comments on how this sniper should proceed, my only logical oppinion is, "You people tend to forget, That the Item is owned by the Seller!", Not eBay and or AuctionSniper.com and No Policy no matter who's policy it is, can not legally force this seller to sell to this sniper period, Besides, a majority of you snipers, have a tendency to forget that "Sniping" is a form of cheating period!" I agree you enter the bid amount, but not on ebay yourselves, you go through a 2nd being auctionsniper.com, who they in return use a cheating auto electroncic device to help you win!, after all a computer is faster on the trigger in cases of most bidders have a handicap, and this due to a much slower computer they use and or they have "Lag Time" with their ISP! So be honest and call it like it is! "Plain Ole Every Day Cheating!" So to that sniper who claims he won, "Forgwet about it, you did not win Fair & Square", AuctionSniper.com won! At least in "Nam" we pulled our own triggers!

Huh???

Sigh. And I suppose eBay is culpable for aiding and abetting snipers by permitting the practice to continue? What words do you have for those who perform manual snipes -- "pull their own triggers" in your militaristic jargon? Are they cheating, too? Are they cheating as much as those who use AuctionSniper and other software programs to place their bids?

When are you red-faced militants going to realize that everyone has the opportunity to bid right up to the last second in an auction, and that a sniper has to outbid everyone in order to win? You proxy-bidding nibblers try to get something "on the cheap" by bidding the least amount you think you can get away with but that's not "cheating?" What about the seller you're trying to short-change? Do you realize that by bidding your maximum you can often avoid losing to snipers?

Phooey.

I agree with Steve 100%. Sniping is not cheating. Sniping results in the seller getting more money for his item. If a snipe is not placed in the last few seconds then the item sells for the lower bid. No matter who places the bid AS or the sniper the seller makes more money!
Yes, bidding wars will drive up the price of an item, but I try to avoid wars as they result in casualties.(Especially wasteful and unneeded wars)
But as the original poster said the item received no bids, most sellers are happy to just sell their item. If the seller expects bidding wars to drive up their price to make a profit then they should also expect to lose money when there is only one or no bids.
Just my two cents worth.

[This message was edited by bisbill on August 01, 2003 at 05:12 AM.]

[This message was edited by bisbill on August 01, 2003 at 05:15 AM.]

What action did you take, and what result did you have?
I've never thought of sniping as cheating, since I'm no a very slow land line, and sometimes am often not able to be at my computer at the end of an auction. I sure have never had a seller complain about it!
Stand firm! LOL

noodleman,
Please post this seller's ID, so we can avoid them.

Sounds like a nut case to tell the truth, absolutely no merit in a sellers objection to sniping, cause it's not the last bid but the high bid that wins.
What they said to you borders on feedback extortion (in my book it is) I think eBay will take a dim view of their practices.

AS rules!!!

robert

Robert writes, "...absolutely no merit in a sellers objection to sniping, cause it's not the last bid but the high bid that wins."

That's true, as far as it goes. But that's also looking at an auction from the buyer's point of view. A greedy seller, and there are lots of those, wants a bidding war. Lots of nice little nibblers losing their sense of proportion and value while they get caught in a game of one-upmanship. For many proxy bidders, it's not how much an item costs, it's winning the auction. It would be a great subject for a Master's thesis in Psychology.

Snipers don't fit that mold. They want to win and they want to exercise economy at the same time. So the sellers don't think things through and view snipers as somehow cutting off a bidding war. That's where rednecks like that Marine come from. Don't get me wrong -- the guy said he was a Marine sniper in 'Nam and you don't get much more courageous than that. He just hasn't thought things through.

I've just read this thread with amazement.. mainly at the lack of basic logic from (a) this idiot seller, and (b) RealSniperUSMC1968.

If sniping is "cheating", then so is every bit of automated stock market software all over the world. The big players use this software to make instant buys & sells which take advantage of milliseconds to squeeze every last cent out of market changes and opportunities. That's technology, whether you love it or hate it.

I agree with every positive comment made in this thread. This idiot seller *does* need a jolt to his attitude.. he is also bound by a contract to supply !!

And as for Mr RealSniperUSMC1968, if sniping is cheating, what is he doing here? Looks to me like a case of "Plain Ole Every Day Stupidity", soldier.. get a grip !!

RealSniperUSMC1968 is a closet manual sniper. 1-4 minutes usually. Dont ask dont tell I guess.

First we had a whining guy who posted all over five different forums, waiting for some type of apology, then we get a 'Nam anti-sniper sniper
*....sigh...*

Click here to see an example of someone nibbling rather than placing one bid at their max

I guess this is legal

ps. USMC? United States Marine Corps

[This message was edited by basrah on August 03, 2003 at 01:21 PM.]

Wonder if that's our red-necked Gyrene 'Nam sniper? He's got an odd bidding pattern, whoever he is. He nibbles at an earlier bid, first with a bid of $1.50 which wasn't enough, then one minute and eighteen seconds later with another bid of $2.00 which wasn't enough, then after another one minute and nineteen seconds he bid a whole $4.25 which wasn't enough. Finally, one minute and nine seconds later he comes up with a bid that tops the earlier one; of course I can't tell what his max bid was because he won the auction with a final price of $4.63, twenty-five cents more than the previous high bid. Gee, the last of the big-time spenders!

Note the one-minute-plus intervals between his bids. What say -- does he have a slow server? A slow thought process?

Just a short note. On this thread there has been a lot of speculation as to whether the seller is in the wrong according to eBay. The seller is wrong. It is called feedback extortion and it is a bootable offense on eBay. You cannot threaten anyone with negative feedback for any reason, if the deal goes sour you can post negative feedback but you cannot threaten them first. You can and should report this to eBay Safe Harbor investigations.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html

If he has that opinion, why is he here?????

Dave

When they call the roll in the Senate, the senators do not know whether to answer "Present" or "Guilty". - Theodore Roosevelt

Every once in a while a redneck drops in to call us bad names, Dave. They don't usually stick around for a response and they certainly don't subscribe to AS. They just want to badmouth somebody without fear of retaliation.

"Man is the only animal that blushes -- or needs to." - Mark Twain

maybe i'm missing something, but i don't understand the problem.
as a seller (which i am) i set my "reserve" as the starting price on the auction. e-bay is the biggest auction medium on the planet, so if you've desribed your item properly and put it in the right category, you'll usually get a fair market price for it. sometimes it'll just go for the minimum bid, sometimes it'll go ballistic, but that's the way auctions are. it all boils down to who sees that particular item and how much they want it.if you're a seller you can't expect top dollar prices for everything. part of the reason people bid at auctions is to get a bargain,that's why most people like to bid at the last minute, either manually or via AS, what's the difference for god's sake? if you're a seller, you've no control over who bids, what amount they bid, or when they place the bid... sometimes as a seller it's your stuff that's the bargain...tough!
if you're a buyer (i am) then it's you that wants the bargain, but they don't come along every day, sometimes its you as the buyer who pays top dollar.
if you go to a saleroom, the "professional" buyers always stand at the back of the room, out of sight of as many of the bidders as possible. that way they can see who's bidding against them. most of these professinal bidders come in (bid)at the last minute.
AS makes its users into professional bidders. the secret is just to bid you're absolute maximum. you may be successful, you may not, but, you won't tip your hand by bidding early, and anyone who's trying to get that particular lot "on the cheap" will miss out.
the only people who moan about AS are, in my opinion, either greedy, money grabbing sellers, or faint hearted penny pinching un professional bidders

Welcome to AS, highwayman! Like all snipers, you've thought this whole thing through and arrived at a sane, logical conclusion. Our fire-breathing friends haven't, and they either don't want to or, more likely, are incapable of a logical thought process.

The psychology of a regular, non-internet auction is fascinating in itself, but eBay is more like a "silent auction" in that the gavel goes down at a pre-arranged time regardless of what the bid is or who the bidder is. Unlike a "silent auction," however, potential bidders on eBay can't see exactly what their opposition has bid. And that's what makes the psychology of an eBay auction really wacky.

The basic personality characteristics of an auction bidder are there for all to see, but in eBay they're really out there in the open. For some reason not only proxy bidders -- "nibblers," we call them here -- but the sellers take a proprietary attitude towards an item. "That's
my widget! I bid first on it, I outbid everybody else until some sneaky, cheating sniper came along and didn't give me the chance to outbid him, too." Or, "That bidder made fifteeen bids in my auction trying to stay on top and damned if I'm going to let some sneaky, cheating sniper come along and take it away from him at the last second." Incredible. The sellers actually don't realize that the sniper will pay them the most of any bidder.[/I] Either that, or sellers with that attitude are as you say -- greedy. They want bidding wars, of course, and snipers avoid those like the plague.

But for the most part we can't reason with people like that. All we can do is quietly point out that snipers have to outbid everyone else to win, that eBay allows sniping, and that anyone who says he doesn't have to turn an item over to a sniper-winner is violating a legal contract.

In all things, follow the rules to the letter and look for ways to maximize benefits. If they change the rules, then change your strategy to maximize benefits.

I reviewed at Ebay, and sniping was one of the items they will NOT investigate, so obviously it is within their rules.

No sellers have yet commented or complained about my sniping in my vast days of sniping.

Heck, I am even non sniping some items just to confuse the issue a little. LOL, I am mostly bidding on the same thing as a group of others, so I toss out a few meaningless bids I know will be topped. But what I want, I snipe HARD - even overbidding to make sure I get the item.

Hopefully, every AS subscriber is aware that sniping is both legal and accepted as a usual practice by eBay. What the objecters are doing is imposing their own values on eBay rules. That retired Marine said that an article was the seller's to transfer ownership of, or not. Well, no. That's just plain wrong. Unless the seller had blacklisted the buyer prior to the beginning of the auction then he is under a legal obligation to transfer ownership once timely payment has been forthcoming.

You can't reason with these rednecks who, fortunately, seem to be in the minority. All you can do is ignore them and be secure in the knowledge that you've done nothing wrong and that you have some rights, too.

I'm confused about one thing...unless one uses the option to let the seller know that they sniped using AuctionSniper, how can anybody even prove that one has sniped?

I have bid every way possible...on the first day of an auction, mid-way, and on the last day. I've used proxy bids, regular straight up bids, and I've sniped at the last second manually, and I've used AS. AND, I have placed a bid simply to get rid of a "Buy It Now" price. I don't see how one can be considered 'wrong' and any other form 'right' - when all are allowed by eBay.

To say that every last-second-bid is a snipe is just plain wrong...I was perusing eBay a few months back and was casually looking at different items, generally using the 'newly listed items' option. At some point, I had changed it to the 'items ending first' and forgot. I came across something I really wanted and when I looked at when the auction was to conclude, it was less than a minute away! To be honest, I really didn't think I would get the bid in on time...however, I did and I won. Now I'm sure that many would call that a snipe, and/or accuse me of lying. But it happens.

The bottom line is that while eBay is not like a traditional 'live' auction (where all the players are aware of the on-going bidding process) and while it is more like a silent auction (which we use frequently for fundraisers) and it is not unheard of for people to go up during the last minute to beat out all the other bidders...AS is really no different than a 'sealed bid' auction; where, simply, the highest bid wins...and what is wrong with that?

It is repeated over and over in this forum (and logic should dictate) that the winning bid is *always* the highest bid regardless of whether that bid is placed 5 days ahead of time or 5 seconds.

The reality is that snipers are generally not cheap, they just really REALLY want the item they want and the seller should be happy to sell it...I've sold on eBay to a sniper and had no problem with it. In fact, that is how I heard about AS! If a seller doesn't like the final price, they should have put a reserve on it. And if the fellow bidders don't like it, they should have put in a higher bid. 'Nuff said.

WarriorNun

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning"

[This message was edited by WarriorNun on August 15, 2003 at 02:14 PM.]

A few sellers -- I don't think they are really numerous -- do consider any bid within X seconds, usually 10 or fewer, of the auction end to be snipes, unless the bidder has bid previously. That's OK, for some reason. But someone who's been on vacation, for instance, and has just done his first eBay search since returning could have seen the item and that the time remaining was short, and put in a desperation bid that came in under 10 seconds from the end.

You're right, WarriorNun: nobody can tell a snipe from a proxy bid (which a snipe is also ) unless the option on the Modify Accounts page is checked to permit notice to go out.


"One of the most difficult things to bear is someone setting a good example." - Mark Twain

Hi, all. I haven't been following this thread for quite some time, nor have I yet followed-up with eBay regarding the matter. Been busy with other matters that have a higher priority in my life.

Someone earlier inquired as to who this specific anti-snipe seller was, so they'd be forewarned to stay clear. His ID is charleybaby.

So far, after using AS for over a year, it's been the only time anyone has questioned my use of the service. Like others, I had been frustrated before by being outbid by last-minute bidders or, worse, not being able to bid manually at the last minute if the bidding ended at an inopportune time. Honestly, it's no different in my mind than waiting until the last minute to place a bid and, as has also been expressed, why show your card early if you know there are others watching.

I collect old postcards -- mostly tinted Japanese cards, and postcards of old images from the Minneapolis-St. Paul area where I live. In many cases, I find myself bidding against the same people time and time again, especially for the Japanese cards. Coincidentally, most of those bids are submitted within 15 seconds of the auction's close. Hmmmm. Do you think the others are using AS, too?

A sniper still bids their maximum, don't you think, just as if they'd entered a proxy bid early in the auction. The only downside to sniping I've found is that making a last-last-second bid is impossible on a dial-up connection. <grin>

Here at AS we always preach that snipes should be for the maximum amount the sniper is willing to spend. As you undoubtedly know, most of the time the maximum isn't reached and the sniper walks away with a comparative bargain. But when it is reached, or nearly so, the sniper is grateful that he bid as much as he did. And if it falls to a higher bidder, as happened to me just yesterday when a seven-second sniper outbid my eight-second snipe, the emotion is one of disappointment eased by the knowledge that somebody was willing to pay more than you were.

I think I'll pay charleybaby's auction record a visit to see how he distinguishes between a sniper and a last-second proxy bidder. I'm betting that the difference (in his alleged mind, at least) is that the latter has already bid one or more times.

quote:

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Steve posted: Lots of nice little nibblers losing their sense of proportion and value while they get caught in a game of one-upmanship. For many proxy bidders, it's not how much an item costs, it's winning the auction. It would be a great subject for a Master's thesis in Psychology.

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Steve, you're really on to something there. I have seen identical items up for auction at the same time; one, for example, going for $12 and the other, for example, going for $18...and they're still bidding on, and competing for, the $18 one?!? How dumb is that? I can only guess that they are too emotionally caught up in it. I suppose occasionally they might miss the other one being available...but I can't believe that is the case every time. And you see it fairly often too!

WarriorNun

P.S. Oh my gosh!! I just lost my 'Junior' status...I'm a full-fledged 'Sniper'! I think I need to go out and celebrate! Hoo-ahh!!!

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning"

Well, if a WarriorNun loses anything, it should be her junior status.

The intensity of some proxy wars can be likened to a feeding frenzy among sharks. I was going to say "hyenas," but there is a matriarchial droit de seigneur among those creatures, while sharks are just frenzied. The intensity is derived from the same proprietary attitude so many bidders take towards items on which they've bid, but haven't won yet. And of course, sellers love it.

I came across an auction (probably a year ago now) where the seller stated right in the auction that any bids received in the last 5 minutes of the auction would be cancelled unless the bidder had already bid previously. Talk about anti-sniper, can't stand even last minute bidding! He won't go far on eBay will he?

Tired and shagged out after a long squawk....

quote:

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eBay_Addict00: anti-sniper auctions

...the seller stated right in the auction that any bids received in the last 5 minutes of the auction would be cancelled unless the bidder had already bid previously...

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Well, at first glance I wasn't sure I liked this character...however, at least his cards are on the table and one could decide right up front whether one wanted to avoid his auction altogether, or go ahead and place a low-ball bid at 5 min, 30 sec before auction's end, or still snipe it anyway...especially if he's gotten no bids. See if he is sorely tempted to sell that widget to you if it was the only money he's going to see out of it! ::shrug::

WarriorNun

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning"

Seems to me the only way this seller can enforce his five-minute rule is to deliberately end his auctions five minutes early. That's a seller's prerogative. But he can't just put a statement like that in his item description and enforce it legally any other way. In effect, he's creating a rule that eBay wouldn't approve of since last-minute bids are specifically mentioned as OK. I'd think a sniper would have the same enforceable grievance against this seller that he'd have against charleybaby (BTW, check this guy out, he's a hoot) or sellers of his choleric ilk.

I don't know if this seller is violating ebay "rules". Even if he is, I would still respect his "terms". If a seller has a problem with snipers, I would like to know up front. I'm not going to "force" someone to do business with me. I'll just take my business someplace else. I actually wish more sellers would state their position on snipers.

P.S. When I was a proxy bidder, I would have really appreciated a seller like this.