Auction Sniper misleading users about service

First, I have to agree you probably would have gotten the item cheaper (about $20) if your bid had not been placed so early.

AS monitors traffic and response times at eBay. AS will adjust your lead time in an attempt to get your bid placed and accepted at your requested lead time. Problem is, response times vary drastically from one second to the next. AS decided to send your bid in this early to ensure it was accepted before auction end.

Sunday evenings are the busiest time of the week for eBay, and auctions that end on an exact quarter hour especially so. All scheduled auctions end on quarter hours, so there are very high spikes in traffic.

Better to bid early, than to late and not get your bid recorded at all. Hope that helps explain things. Welcome to the forum.

The following table has been reorganized and sorted into date order.  First
bid placed is line #1.  That should make it easier to follow the auction.
Two additional columns have been calculated and added.  They are the current 
bid and high bidder, as displayed on eBay after each bid is placed.        v2.1.08
* = Winning bid. 
 
                      Max                        Current Winning
  #    Bidder         Bid      Day & Time         Bid  &  Bidder
                    (US $)
  1   cwakes2000     30.00   20-Jun  21:56:42     0.99   cwakes2000   
  2   adamantyr      51.00   20-Jun  23:21:44    31.00   adamantyr    
  3   larsthegreat   40.00   21-Jun  00:13:48    41.00   adamantyr    
  4   cwakes2000     50.00   22-Jun  18:55:16    51.00   adamantyr    
  5   cwakes2000     60.00   22-Jun  18:55:26    52.00   cwakes2000   
  6   blukshaw      100.00   22-Jun  19:33:50    61.00   blukshaw     
  7   cwakes2000     75.00   23-Jun  20:48:06    76.00   blukshaw     
  8   aesirrob       85.00   27-Jun  09:27:33    86.00   blukshaw     
  9   aesirrob       95.00   27-Jun  09:28:08    96.00   blukshaw     
 10   blkgryph2     100.00   27-Jun  16:16:07   100.00   blukshaw     
 11   blukshaw      115.00   27-Jun  16:20:34   102.50   blukshaw     
 12   umrgregg     *175.00   27-Jun  18:59:12   117.50   umrgregg     
 13   adamantyr     153.00   27-Jun  18:59:28   155.50   umrgregg     
 14   adamantyr     175.00   27-Jun  18:59:50   175.00   umrgregg     
        End                  27-Jun  19:00:00              

Thanks for answering my question pup. I have to say though, 48 seconds before close is way too soon. I could understand 10 seconds maybe 15 max, but by that time it's no longer a snipe and in my opinion no longer worth me paying money for.

I was refreshing the auction watching the bidding and noticed no lag. If AS is on the connection they say they are, there should be no reason to place 48 seconds before close of auction; not without notice to or permission from the bidder.

Yours is the first question/complaint I've seen in a while about bidding early. May have just been a fluke for this time of year. Starting in a month or so, as Christmas gets closer it will get worse. I've been on the forum when bids are not accepted at eBay in time to get recorded. Trust me, bidding early is the lesser of two evils.

Good idea about getting permission to bid early or notifying us, but in practice, most difficult... It’s been suggested before. Don't know just how they monitor traffic, but there have been a few hints. The monitoring is done in real time, so notifying you is out of the question since you can’t modify your bid in the last 2-3 minutes anyway. AS is also asked to look into the future about a minute, so there is also some guessing going on. They just guessed wrong. They will always be conservative and try not to take a chance of missing a bid.

The only advice I have, if you are going to be at your computer anyway, is manually snipe, (Let us know how you did), or stay away from those Sunday evening exact quarter hour auctions.

Good Luck.

If email notifications are not a good option, maybe AS should give the bidder the option to a) let AS place bid as it sees fit given net traffic etc. or b) lock the bid at the given lead time regardless of what AS thinks the network is doing (which I presumed to be the case). If there were these options available for each snipe (maybe a pop-up explaining what each option does along with a brief risk explanation) you could avoid the dubiousness of AS placing bids so early.

From the FAQ regarding lead times:

“We don't recommend anything less than 5 seconds Although we send the snipe on time, during peak times an eBay server may not process it in time. This is not the fault of eBay or us; internet traffic is just heavier at certain times. And during peak periods, you might consider adding 2-4 seconds more since their servers seem to be taking quite a hit during that time (5-10 p.m. PST), and on weekends.”

Edit: Emphasis mine.

There isn't a disclaimer stating that AS will use your input lead-time as a general suggestion and bump the time back to avoid missing the bid. In fact, it states the opposite and puts the risk of small lead times on the user. The purpose of sniping is, well sniping and there are risks associated with it, such as the bid not being processed in time. I realize there is also a risk for AS if the bid isn’t processed; AS won’t be paid. I hope that this isn't the factor for AS placing bids early (which is in contradiction with their literature).

You have to remember I'm not necessarily complaining here, but citing some areas where AS communication with customers regarding sniping is a bit questionable and can be improved. AS literature states that bids will be placed at the lead time the user inputs, regardless of network risks. So for you to suggest the time was bumped back because of risk is contradictory and both cannot be correct. Maybe I’m the only person who expects a service to work as stated. If I am, then your service literature needs to change to reflect what the majority of your customers want. AS really needs to resolve this issue.

Something is definitely going on!!! Last snipe of mine was put in 27 seconds earlier, with a 4 sec lead time. Also, several other snipes have been put in way to early.

Yep the same thing happened to me today and lost the auction as the bid was some 35 seconds too early???
I might aswell have bid manually and would have cut the lead time down to 10-20 seconds but then that's what I thought AS was suppposed to do???

This is a bump. Is it possible to get a response from AS about what their policy is (regarding above post)? I beleive I have a have a valid point about getting mixed signals and would like to get a straight answer.

Thanks,

PB

I don't work for AS, but Sara does.     >Click<

AS has said that of 'early bids' or 'not in time', early bids are the lesser of two evils. Don't think it's going to change.

A 3 second lead time on an item that ends on the hour on a Sunday Evening - not recommended as eBay slows down due to so many items closing on the same time - see numerous previous posts on this subject!

I looked at the bid history and disagree with your conclusion. Please tell me if I'm wrong...

adamantyr bid 175 with 10 seconds to go whereas umrgregg (pallbearer?) bid 175 with 48 seconds to go. So, if umrgregg's bid had arrived after adamantyr's then adamantyr would have won under eBay's Proxy Bidding rules.

It was a Sunday evening so I guess things were running a bit slow causing AS to increas the lead time to compensate. It would have been slow for everyone...

It could be argued that adamantyr was able to react to umrgregg's bid but s/he would only have seen the item being bid up to 117 so his/her bid of 175 was just a coincidence.

Or is there a sniping service that works better than AS when eBay is running slowly...

R2

So does AS compensate bid times or doesn't it? AS states that it does not compensate for traffic in it's literature. However, it seems some of you beleive differently. I know Adamantyr and talked to hom post auction. He did react to my early bid. Now, it's not that I mind in this case that my bid was early, but I wont be placing bids again untill I know how AS handles bid placement.

In the perfect world, this is what the auction would have looked like.

The following table has been reorganized and sorted into date order.  First
bid placed is line #1.  That should make it easier to follow the auction.
Two additional columns have been calculated and added.  They are the current 
bid and high bidder, as displayed on eBay after each bid is placed.        v2.1.08
* = Winning bid. (bid in history would have showed as 155.50)
 
                      Max                        Current Winning
  #    Bidder         Bid      Day & Time         Bid  &  Bidder
                    (US $)
  1   cwakes2000     30.00   20-Jun  21:56:42     0.99   cwakes2000   
  2   adamantyr      51.00   20-Jun  23:21:44    31.00   adamantyr    
  3   larsthegreat   40.00   21-Jun  00:13:48    41.00   adamantyr    
  4   cwakes2000     50.00   22-Jun  18:55:16    51.00   adamantyr    
  5   cwakes2000     60.00   22-Jun  18:55:26    52.00   cwakes2000   
  6   blukshaw      100.00   22-Jun  19:33:50    61.00   blukshaw     
  7   cwakes2000     75.00   23-Jun  20:48:06    76.00   blukshaw     
  8   aesirrob       85.00   27-Jun  09:27:33    86.00   blukshaw     
  9   aesirrob       95.00   27-Jun  09:28:08    96.00   blukshaw     
 10   blkgryph2     100.00   27-Jun  16:16:07   100.00   blukshaw     
 11   blukshaw      115.00   27-Jun  16:20:34   102.50   blukshaw     
 12   adamantyr     153.00   27-Jun  18:59:28   117.50   adamantyr    
 13   umrgregg     *175.00   27-Jun  18:59:57   155.50   umrgregg     
        End                  27-Jun  19:00:00              

Except the world isn't perfect. umrgregg's bid would not have been received in time to get registered, adamantyr would have won for 117.50, and this thread would be about why AS never attempted to place a bid.

AS's Sara has confirmed that AS adjusts lead time and we've all seen it happen so there's no doubt about that. So, it's not a belief, it's a fact. As mentioned by various 'old hands', Sunday is a slow time so AS adjusts lead times to compensate - another fact. More so on auctions ending on the hour...

Perhaps Sara can tell you what exactly went on with your particular Auction...

Perhaps adamantyr can share his methods for bidding twice in 30 seconds at a time when AS allegedly thought everything was running slowly?

R2

I'll repost what I sent to the Advice forum since it pertains to this thread as well:

quote:

---

Since my thread here was linked to this one I'll add my comments here as well. It states my opinions on why lead-time adjustment on AS part is wrong.

To AS Staff: Increasing the lead time on bids to ensure processing while stating in your user FAQ and guides that you DONT increase bid times is misleading. You need to make it CLEAR to your users that AS tweaks lead-times based on internet traffic forecasts to ensure bid processing. Whether or not this is actually a sniping service enhancement is debatable. Regardless, users expect a service to perform how it states it will perform. When you clearly state in your literature that the risk of loosing a bid because of traffic is placed on the user, then you need to stick to that and not increase the lead-time to ensure bid processing. If you are increasing lead-times to ensure bid processing you need to clarify your company literature.

I prefer to decide whether or not to take the risk of not having a bid placed in time when using a sniping service. I think it’s a conflict of interests for AS to tweak lead-times--especially without properly disclosing it to their users. I don’t see AS benevolently increasing lead-time for its users ensuring a possible win at the expense of a bid war or out bid, but rather AS maximizing profit by ensuring winning auctions at the expense of customer choice. I will continue to see it this way until AS makes it clear to me and its current user base that its policy is to tweak lead-times to ensure bid processing.

PB

---

R2,

Adam told me 'I was able to [refresh and] bid no problem, [AS] was smoking crack.' At this point I really can't disagree with him. I think it's time AS changed its literature to reflect the fact that it compensates lead-times to ensure processing at both ends of the ether. By not doing so, AS is misleading their customers on how their service operates. Whether or not you see lead-time tweaking as a good thing (tm) or a bad thing (tm) is moot. The fact of the matter is that it's a practice that's not concurrent with their posted operating procedure.

In my opinion, tweaking takes away customer choice to take risks regarding the placement of their bid. This risk is exactly what makes AS a sniping service. If a user wants to ENSURE their bid gets placed, they can make a lead-time of 30-15 sec. If a user wants to take moderate risks, 15-10 sec. And high risk would be lower.

PB

Edit: Puppy, in any case I would gladly take not winning the auction due to the bid not being processed than take the risk of AS errantly placing a bid 45 sec early--or even 1 second earlier than the time I choose. And understanding that risk, I wouldn't have come here to post about it.

R2 you are correct that I would not have won if AS had not placed my bid early. The auction would have ended with two bids of 175 with Adam as the winner, which would have been fine by me. Our bidding the same ammount was a coincidence in our judgement of the item value. He thought 175 was a nice round number to enter in at the last second. KODT #1 would have come around again eventually, and when it did, I wouldn't have had to worry about Adam bidding on it.

Strange that Sara is responding to other threads but not this one...

R2

I hope she responds to this soon.

PB

Are you guys turning blue yet?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bartelby:
Are you guys turning blue yet?

---

Nope, not yet.

PB

There are at least 100 threads about this, I'm not going to waste my time resonding, nothing has changed, go read any of my other 100 repsonses.

Sara,

No, you really havn't responded or answered any of my questions. Nor has this wasted any of your time. If you provide a link to the answers of my questions I'll be satisfied. If you provide a brief explanation as to why there is a conflict in the explanations as to how AS carries out their bid placement I'll be elated! Tell me why the AS web pages state AS doesn't manipulate bid times and you say they do. Why is AS not correcting their information to their customers? Why is AS continueing to mislead their customer base? Answering these questions (or providing links to the answers) is hardly a waste of time.

PB

I just lost an auction because AS put my bid in 14 seconds earlier than i wanted it to!!!!!! Ive read all the postings about their lead time and the excuse about how they have to do that on heavy traffic nights. This is a bunch of BS!!! I have been a buyer and seller on Ebay since 1999 and I can tell you for a fact that at this time of year there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO PUT MY BID IN 14 SECONDS EARLY ON A SATURDAY EVENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I had wanted to lose the auction I could have done it on my own thank you very much!!!

quote:

---

If you provide a link to the answers of my questions I'll be satisfied.

---

Click here to find the answers

quote:

---

have been a buyer and seller on Ebay since 1999 and I can tell you for a fact

---

No you can't. We snipe more auctions in a minute than you have in your 4 years on eBay.

Just because you've done something a few times doesn't make you an expert at it. We on the other hand are experts. Leave the sniping to the pros.

Your snipe was placed at 16 seconds before an item ending at 7pm. The other bidder bid with 10 seconds left, you would have lost in either case. They did not bid, then see your higher bid and rebid. You lost because your max was $14.48, and theirs was at least $14.98.

Sara,

As I've already searched the forums for answers I'll assume your smart ass response is just a way of saying that AS is misleading on purpose. If you have users who don't scrounge the forums, you are lying about how your service works. Even if you do have users that scrounge the forums, your tactics are dubious at best.

PB

Hmmmm, sounds even more like multiple posts, under different names, from the same user....

Hi,
this is my first post - I just signed up. Any etiquette advice is welcome.

TO THE POINT:
I was here looking around a few months ago and it seems that this was a heated topic then also. Would it be difficult to have a couple check boxes in the "Snipe Now" popup that basically says either maintain exact bid lead time or allow adjutment for traffic.?

Direct response welcome: jes59@comcast.net

Hi JohnnysDad, and welcome.

To answer your question... 'Would it be difficult?' Probably not, but still don't see it happening.

If AS sends my bid in early, it's silly to argue whether it's to insure my win, or insure AS gets their cut. They are both the same thing. Some see the glass as half empty and others see it as half full, and it's silly to augue which is correct. If AS bids TO early and I'm outbid manually, they don't get paid. That's enough to convince me they will do everything they can to insure my bid gets placed, but not TO early.

Not bad etiquette, but I'd click the edit ( ) button and remove my email address.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chatter:
_Hmmmm, sounds even more like multiple posts, under different names, from the same user...._

---

I can assure you Chatter, that it's multiple people with the same general feeling. Using such a tactic is asinine when dealing with someone who can look up information about you (e.g. forum moderator). Anyway, your comments really aren’t answering any of our questions. If you want to make yourself useful to us, you could perhaps find Sara’s answers to our questions in her previous posts. I can restate it if you want: Why is AS service working differently than how it explicitly states it works in its online documentation?

It's as simple as this. If you dont like how things are here, go somewhere else. End of discussion.