Upset: Auction Sniper bid at 9 sec before closing rather than 3 sec

Perhaps you could supply the auction # (link to the auction would be best).

thank you for your replies. i rather keep my privacy of not posting the URL.

i just want to point out:
i specified 3 seconds lead in AS snipe.
AS bidded at 9 seconds remaininig.

i was sitting by my computer.
i could have manually bidded at 3 seconds (as i have done numerous times before using AS) and the guy may not have responded in time (as my previous experience).

the competing bidder's original bid was lower than mine, and his winning bid was entered after seeing my AS bid at 9 seconds.

Perhaps you could supply the time of the other snipe. If it was only a couple of seconds after yours, it would seem unlikely it was a response to your 9-second snipe. No way of knowing for sure what motivated the other sniper, short of contacting them, which probably is not a great idea.

To address the “why”: ebay’s response time isn’t consistent. Sometimes it might take 2 seconds to record a snipe, other times it might take more. AS tries to monitor ebay’s current response time (don’t ask how, as AS won’t say). If their software determines that to get the snipe recorded 3 seconds before the auction closes they need to place the snipe 9 seconds or 12 or 15 seconds before, then AS will pad your lead-time. If at the instant your snipe goes in, instead of needing 9, 12 or 15 seconds, it only needs 1 or 2 seconds, then the snipe is placed prematurely. The belief is that it’s better to have a premature snipe than no snipe at all.

Now, there has been a request (make that plural) to have an option to turn off padding (or whatever it’s called) and that regardless of ebay’s performance to always place the snipe at the lead-time specified by the user. I think it’s a good suggestion, as I’m burned out on others trying to prevent me from making mistakes – but then some might not feel the same way.

Anyway, that’s the reason behind the early snipe. A lot of the regulars on this forum started off as manual snipers, and have decided that it’s better to use AS.

There is a neat feature that AS uses – each snipe is placed by multiple servers (I believe it’s 4). These redundant snipes don’t get recorded in the bid history as ebay’s software prevents (typically) multiple bids from the same user for the same amount, but it’s good backup to insured that at least one of those servers gets the snipe placed.

I understand your concerns, but you will never know whether the winning bidder had a snipe ready with a higher amount OR if the bid was in response to your snipe (although I agree with smart, highly unlikely at 9 seconds unless they had it preloaded in the confirm bid stage)...anyways....

I just wanted to point out that AS will just about ALWAYS adjust your lead time if you are going to set snipes at 3 seconds, its just too big of a risk that your bid wont be accepted by ebay.

I know plenty of people say they can and have been placing bids at 3 seconds manually, but I tend to think that those bidders dont wait until they see the clock hit 3 seconds remaining THEN hit the confirm bid button....they submit the bid in the final 8 or so seconds and it was accepted by ebay with 3 seconds remaining.

again, thanks for your detail replies.

I have copied the bid history here:

Ended: Oct-12-05 11:21:46 PDT

User ID Bid Amount Date of bid

B US $13,988.89 Oct-12-05 11:21:41 PDT
AS US $13,888.89 Oct-12-05 11:21:37 PDT
AS US $13,888.89 Oct-12-05 11:21:41 PDT
AS US $13,888.89 Oct-12-05 11:21:41 PDT
B US $13,300.00 Oct-12-05 00:44:11 PDT
C US $13,200.00 Oct-11-05 22:56:10 PDT
...

AS= Auction Sniper's bid for me
B = Winning bidder
C = other guys.


As you can see, AS bidded for me early at :37 (T-:09) and :41, :41 (T-5). "B" was happy at $13,300 last night and nothing else happen.

I manually monitored the auction (refresh, refresh) and i saw my bid went in at $13,400.

if i can see, he can see. t-9s he saw he lost, so "B" was probably manually sniping with a window open and ready to snipe last few seconds.

so he has 9 seconds to react, which he did.

his snipe amount could be anything ($1M), but the point is, he had 9 frigging seconds to react. those who snipe manually before knows they *can* and *have* sniped within 3 seconds (on records), whether it is the traffic or etc, they knows how to time themselves.

"B" bid was taken T-5s. so he did the sniping just 4 seconds. That is a normal reaction time.

If AS did snipe my bid closer to 3 seconds, he would have not been able to sneak in a snipe.

Let's put it this way, "B" manually sniped the way we all did before using AS, and he won.

(yes, his bid was higher, but then again, he might not have even bothered to snipe if he didnt lose, since there was no activities for the whole 10 hours prior to closing).

quote:

AS US $13,888.89 Oct-12-05 11:21:37 PDT
AS US $13,888.89 Oct-12-05 11:21:41 PDT
AS US $13,888.89 Oct-12-05 11:21:41 PDT

quote:

As you can see, AS bidded for me early at :37 (T-:09) and :41, :41 (T-5).

I'm must be missing something or seeing something that’s not there. According to this, are you saying that AS placed 3 snipes, all of them for the same amount, two of them at the same exact time (11:21:41) and one 4 seconds earlier (11:21:37), all using the same ebay user ID?

yes that is what is shown on the bidding page.
is this the different servers doing this?

The 2 11:21:41’s yes, but ebay wouldn’t allow them after the 11:21:37 for the same amount. The bids like the 2 11:21:41’s only occur when ebay doesn’t have enough time to check for a duplicate bid. Multiple bids from the redundant servers always have the exact bid times. I’m stumped. Anyway, understand your frustration with the snipe going in 6 seconds early, especially at those prices.

Like Rick, I'm puzzled by the multiple snipe/different times. In the past when we've seen AS successfully shove in several identical snipes to Ebay, the times have also been identical. It would seem that some level of ebay's bid screening protocol is relaxed, perhaps in the final moments of an auction and/or when an auction receives nearly simultaneous bids in the waning moments.

Like the others, I'm also skeptical of this winning bid being reactionary to THIS snipe of yours. I'm particularly intrigued by your statement

quote:

i was sitting by my computer.
i could have manually bidded at 3 seconds (as i have done numerous times before using AS) and the guy may not have responded in time (as my previous experience).

This statement implies that you mainly SNIPE bid everything you bid. I may be reading MORE into the statement than you intended, but it also sounds like this bidder and you maybe have some history? -- have gone up against each other before? If you've prevailed over this bidder before with your snipe bids, you better believe he noticed! And he may have ANTICIPATED you were lurking in the shadows with a snipe bid and pre-emptively fired off a snipe of his own! There'd be no harm to do so since if no one else bid, ebay wouldn't allow him to bid himself up. However, if some sniper (like you!) came in with a late bid, he'd have another chance to prevail. His snipe MAY have been reactive in the sense that he was reacting in THIS auction to those snipes of yours that he LOST to in past auctions!

quote:

I manually monitored the auction (refresh, refresh) and i saw my bid went in at $13,400.

if i can see, he can see. t-9s he saw he lost, so "B" was probably manually sniping with a window open and ready to snipe last few seconds.

Did you happen to see the time remaining in the auction when your bid was displayed? You keep assuming that ebay was able to display the new updated bid at the same instant it received it (t-9s). My guess is there is a little lag time (maybe a second or 2?) which lessens the time he has to react and again makes me inclined to think this guy planned to snipe whether you did or not. It would be a hoot if he used AS too!

One thing for sure, he was doing a little victory dance after this one, especially if he has lost to you in the past!

We bid from many servers. For bids over $500 we bid from even more servers. We want you to win, we do the happy dance ourselves when someone wins an item over $500 and we earn $5. I don't believe you lost because they had 4 seconds to react in this case. I believe they were already plannning to snipe a higher bid. If you are really curious you could always click their name and send them a short email through eBays system asking them.

Oh, and the item did have 55 bids up to that point, and his max had been reached. And he had often come along in the final 30 seconds to increase his bids.

Based on those factors and the that his bid was for $588+ more than the bid he saw it's reasonable to assume he was simply waiting around with a snipe window open which he was going to enter no matter what. Likely already predetermined as to what that max bid would be.

Easier to blame AS than to bid in 4 seconds!

Fact - no-one can react in that sort of time. This was a predetermined snipe by someone who bid more than you causing you to lose.

R2

I got outbid last night at 4 seconds.

It is physically impossible to manually re-bid at that time and win. I tried - and lost!

Also I agree it is ultimately up to ebay and the other servers involved at the time the auction is about to end. All depends on how quick they both are to respond.

So I guess its still just comes down to pure LUCK in the end.

Im addicted ;-)
Mcleods Fan

Bidding History

Shock Horror another examples of AS biding too early on a Sunday night! A whole 43 seconds early to be precise. Should I have a rant & rave about AS letting me be outbid? No, because I had bid my max and won. This is what happened ......

Auction End time:
05-Dec-05 01:00:00 GMT

AS bid fo me at:
05-Dec-05 00:59:17 GMT

The next is .........

Wait for ....... it a real human sniper in action:

US $15.00 05-Dec-05 00:59:47 GMT
US $13.51 05-Dec-05 00:59:21 GMT
US $12.00 05-Dec-05 00:59:04 GMT
US $11.00 05-Dec-05 00:58:52 GMT
US $9.00 05-Dec-05 00:58:42 GMT
US $6.50 05-Dec-05 00:58:31 GMT
When my snipe came in, he had just topped my earlier bid and was in the lead at $12 and because AS was early AND he was sitting at his computer, he was able to make two further bids!

Angry? Not in the least
a. I was in bed
b. I value my beauty sleep a lot more than $3
c. I had bid my max:
"Your maximum bid: US $41.78 "

So he could have cost me a lot more!

Moral - Bid you max, go to bed, don't worry about the silly so & sos gazing bleary eyed into their computers because they can't decide in the first place what to bid.

Paul

(this was, after all, once a $300+ lens so even $40 would have been cheap)

That DAMN, STUPID, IGNORANT (etc.) proxy bidder - started yet another Bid Wars**!

Good thing the bidding was NOT in the hundreds, OR thousands. Also, good thing only two bidders were interested, unless that bidding war scared off everyone else and only left those two deep-pocket bidders.

A sniper placing a proxy bid is the equivalent, or should be, of exciting a riot.



** = “Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, your highness. I am a sniper, like my father before me.” – Luke Skywalker

Actaully Rick, I did a proxy bid just to see if he was serious or not.

I really thought that a "probing bid" of $10 would sort of reveal if he was serious. It revealed that he was not (I didn't quite expect the amount of "nibbling" though). I then set my proper bid at just over $40 rather than the $50 I would have had to go to if I thought he was serious. My next move was to try $20.

I agree with you (Oh my goodness, more **** agreement!) it was probably foolhardy to show my hand and I wouldn't have done so in an area where I really want something and have an accurate idea where I should be.

e.g.
http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=7369903458

http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=7558399985

In this case I didn't really know what to expect so did a little "probing" to give me a feel for it. On balance probably not a good tactic, but auction fever does sometime get me!

If I had been sitting at my computer I would probably have gone way higher to get this one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=75...TRK%3AMEDW%3AIT&rd=1

thats the trouble with AS, you have to make up your mind & stick to it! In this case the max I set was not my "real" max, because I regretted it as soon as I lost!

Paul

quote:

... AND he was sitting at his computer, he was able to make two further bids!

Angry? Not in the least
a. I was in bed
b. I value my beauty sleep a lot more than $3

Might as well have stayed up, Paul -- the sleep's not working!

quote:

"...I am a sniper, like my father before me.” – Luke Skywalker

Wasn't that Luke Snipewalker??

Like we always say. Bid your max so that your feelings will not be hurt if you lose. Then go do something else. What will be will be, etc. etc. etc.