Suggestion: Only place the snipe of the highest bid

Not to be rude, but isn't this pretty much the same issue you brought up on another topic?

(Is that you, Clark?)

I'll answer his question: why shouldn't you? What subscribing snipers pay, or don't pay, is not any of AS's affair. Its job is to enter snipes as set by people who pay it to do so (when they win). The only legitimate concern AS has is that as many of its subscribers as possible win.

In the situation you describe, only one subscriber can win, but that's no skin off AS's nose. The most possible winners any auction for one item can have is one.

No Rick, you are NOT being rude. Yes it is the same topic. That was a question so it was in the question section. This is a suggestion so it is in the suggestion section.

The ANSWER to the QUESTION in the QUESTION SECTION was NO. So I am making a SUGGESTION in the SUGGESTION SECTION to make is a new FEATURE. Am I using the forums incorrectly?

Isn't the reason that people snipe to get a better price on the auction? If it were just about winning, I could just big $10,000,000 on everything. If I were willing to pay the money then it would not matter WHEN I bid. So the reason people use AS is to get the items they want at a better price by bidding at the last second and not give someone else the chance to up their own bid and drive the price up.

Yes only ONE person can win, but why pay more money for the item? You are doing a DIS-service to the users placing both bids and drving up the price. This benefits the seller AND AS but NOT the user of your system.

I don't care whether it's user-friendly or not. All this stuff you're writing is completely beside the point. When are you going to get it through your head that AS is NOT in the business of seeing who might be bidding against whom? What's more, it never will do that. If you don't like it, then you can always quit AS and use a snipe service that does that -- and good luck finding one, anywhere. In the meantime, jumping from category to category in the AS Forum while you flagellate a moribund equine (beat a dead horse) isn't going to win you any converts, and there's a good chance it'll make some people sore. Think about that before you come into this Forum looking for help with something.

How can the things I am writing about be "completely beside the point" WHEN IT IS MY POINT.

What you do not seem to understand is that I asked a question. You answered it. I was hoping that it could be the other way, so I made a suggestion hoping that it would change so I moved it to a more appropriate forum.

I am just a little confused. Steve is this your site and you make the decission on what does or does not get put in (not trying to be a smart guy, just wanted to know)

No, this isn't my site and I don't make any decisions about how AS does business. I've been around AS for a long time and was the crash dummy for the beta testing of the initial program. That was even before the current tech force came on board. I'm not an employee of AS or anything like that.

Well, we'll let your point stand and see whether we can get Sara B. to give us some input on it, OK? Sara, you following this?

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Originally posted by sonofagunk:
I am just a little confused. Steve is this your site and you make the decission on what does or does not get put in (not trying to be a smart guy, just wanted to know)

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WRONG!
Steve is a member of the Illuminati. He knows where Hoffa is.

Hate to keep bringing this up, but you keep reminding me of clark.


Steve, how are you the only one to be accused of working/owning AS? I've tried everything and I have yet to have that honor. JUST WHAT THE F. DO I HAVE TO DO?

I haven't been around quite a long as Steve, but it has been quite a while. I don't post as often as Steve or Rick or Chatter, but I've got a LOT of sniping experience. And I don't know of a single sniper who signed up for this service with the intention of having only some of their snipes placed. To have a chance to win an auction, my bid MUST be placed. The only time I have NO chance is if my bid is NOT placed.

I respect my fellow snipers, but if I don't win, I at least want my bid to make the other person pay more. I also know they feel the same way. That's just the nature of things.

I also know EVERY time a there's been a problem with eBay not registering snipes on time snipers complain. If they already complain about their snipes being missed (whether they would have won or not), why would you think that the rest of the AS community would ever want AS to change and submit only some just to suit you?

I don't work for AS, but looking at this realistically, why would AS alienate practially all of it's customers just to satisfy your request? And, if as you point out, AS make more money on higher bids, why would they want to cut their revenue?

You are of coarse allowed to make your suggestion. But if you stop and really think about what your asking, you'll see it's just not realistic to even hope it will happen.

[This message was edited by star_trkr on May 22, 2003 at 08:04 PM.]

Ringing is a system whereby a group of people proposing to bid at an auction get togetehr and hold a private auction to see who will win an item on the basis that thereafter only the "winner" will bid at the real auction. The aim of course is to keep the price low for the benefit of the ringers.

In the UK at least, this is a serious criminal offence and fraud.

The suggestion is basically for AS to be an automated auction ring. It will not fly!

Rick asked, "Steve, how are you the only one to be accused of working/owning AS? I've tried everything and I have yet to have that honor. JUST WHAT THE F. DO I HAVE TO DO?"

I think the requirement is that you have to look like me, and believe me, that's a price you don't want to pay.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rick:
[QUOTE]QUOTE]
WRONG!
Steve is a member of the Illuminati. He knows where Hoffa is.

Hate to keep bringing this up, but you keep reminding me of clark.

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Everyone knows that Hoffa is with Elvis. I am sure that SonofaClark knows this.

Nope, only I know where Jimmy Hoffa is. Bu-wahhahhahhah!

This is only a simulated post. Had this been an actual post, you would have been informed....

hey, sorry to break in here, but that is just a horrible suggestion. whoever talked about ringing had it right. Auction sniper is already kinda shady in my eyes already since it defies the purpose of the Ebay bidding system. It bids late so that people have no chance to outbid you. That's already kinda low and dirty, and hurts sellers. So now you want them to reconcile competing bids so that sellers are hurt even more?? And then when will it stop? AS could tell you someone else on AS will beat you, so you up your bid a little, then AS will tell the other person that THEY will be outbid and they up THEIR bid. Pretty soon you've got bidding wars on AS alone!

I'm somewhat against AS in the first place cause it gives an unfair advantage to those who use it, But on the other hand, if everyone bid their true maximum amount for their "maximum bid" on ebay directly, then there would be no problems.

If you noticed, or you should have, no one on this forum agreed with SonofaClark.

"I'm somewhat against AS in the first place cause it gives an unfair advantage to those who use it" - It's available to everyone, so anyone that doesn't use it shouldn't say it's unfair.

Yep. People who are smart enough to study have an advantage in school, and people who are smart enough to snipe have an advantage on e-Bay.
--Christine

SonofaClark never gives up.

(sonofagunk. but I had to make a new username because the other was cancelled).

Thanks for all the info. Got me to do research and find better options than AS. Steve is doing a real service to whom ever is running the company.

Just so you know, sniping requires 6 lines of perl code
1) to retrive page with the with the end time.
2) to calc the end time
3) to sleep that time
4) to retrive page with "bid confirm" that has the "key" in it
5) parse that page to get the "key"
6) retrive page that places the bid (i.e. place the bid)

seeing what is around here, I think this is the way to go. I am 5 for 5 with my system and saved myself $10-$20. My friends are very happy using it too.

'Bye....

(One Mississippi, Two Mississippi...)

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First Rick says:
If you noticed, or you should have, no one on this forum agreed with SonofaClark.

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Good for them, BUT I had different opinions than them. Lay off. It seems like YOU're the one who just likes to attack people. Really, I'm sure all you want Rick is a forum full of yes-people. All they say all day is "yes, oh I love AS, it is the best!" and "oooh, I saved money with AS! It is so great." So that when I come and voice my disagreeing opinions, you have to attack me by likening me to other people who aren't all lovey dovey with AS.

quote:

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Then Rick goes on to say:
"I'm somewhat against AS in the first place cause it gives an unfair advantage to those who use it" - It's available to everyone, so anyone that doesn't use it shouldn't say it's unfair.

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It's available to everyone... FOR A PRICE. No one should be forced to pay AS a fee in order to have a full advantage at buying something on Ebay. I can't believe you would think this.

If you don't like AS, and you don't like AS users, why don't you just leave us alone? You have expressed your low opinion of us quite clearly ad nauseum. Yet you keep coming back. If you dislike us that much, stay away..... please.


3 mississippi....
4 mississippi....

Um, scottopoly, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say in that last post. If I read you correctly, that's not at all what Rick proposes. Could you clarify your last statement, please?

Sometimes Rick takes an opposite side just to get discussion started. You have to know when he's playing "devil's advocate." In any case, it's not really necessary to go accusing him of looking for yes-men who agree with him. That's not true.

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Originally posted by star_trkr:
If you don't like AS, and you don't like AS users, why don't you just leave us alone? You have expressed your low opinion of us quite clearly ad nauseum. Yet you keep coming back. If you dislike us that much, stay away..... please.

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It is not my fault my opinion differs from the majority here who love AS. What is wrong with that? I bring up a valid point, yes? Is it that you don't want to admit that AS has consequences? I guess so since no one actually argues against my point, all they do is call me clark and ignore what I have to say .

basically it just seems that anyone who doesn't love AS is not recieved very well around here. People who post that they just won their first auction and who say they are so in love with AS now always seem to get a reply from Rick saying that they will be "good additions" to the forum. Also he identifies people as "friend or foe" based on their opinion of AS implying anyone who doesn't like AS is the enemy. Of course, I'm new here so I am sorry if I am making any hastey judgements, but that's what I'm going on. Also, Sorry for turning this into a soap opera, but it already was a soap opera with the whole clark and sonofagunk thing, I just jumped in at the wrong time. And I also wouldn't be saying this about Rick (or anyone) if he didn't consider me a "foe" (as I assume he does at this point)

Steve,

What he quoted, this is the only part that was from me, "It's available to everyone, so anyone that doesn't use it shouldn't say it's unfair." The rest is his statement.

P. S. This is his, "I'm somewhat against AS in the first place cause it gives an unfair advantage to those who use it"

Scottopoly, you wrote "Is it that you don't want to admit that AS has consequences?" Well, of course it has consequences. Most of them are good in the eyes of AS subscribers -- we win more bids as a consequence of AS; we get them at a lower price as a consequence of AS; we get tips and helpful hints from other subscribers as a consequence of the AS forum...and so on. But it would seem that you have other,negative consequences in mind. Would you kindly enumerate them, in your own words?

Basically my only problem (with AS) is as I stated a while ago: it gives the people who use it an advantage over those who don't. But it is somewhat bad to outbid someone at the last minute specifically because then they will not be able to rebid. But maybe the real problem is how people bid on Ebay. HMM, let's look deeper.

When I first realized how Ebay works, I figured out real quick that people don't use it the way they are told to. What I mean is that people don't actually put in their true max bid as their proxy and then leave it alone. That is how the system is designed to work. The way the people use it is to wait till near the end of the auction and bid just enough to be the high bidder. Then the next person does it and you have people constantly outbidding eachother. The last person to outbid everyone else wins because the auction ended before the loser could up his bid. This results in lower prices but the winner isn't always the guy with the highest true max bid. Is that a bad thing? I dunno, I think it is. (It seems I harbor some youthful idealism.)

Sniping takes this to the extreme by only bidding really late and avoiding not upping the price in the interim. And in doing so, sniping discourages this type of bidding. This is because sniping can be beaten by simply proxy bidding your true max bid whenever you feel. If everyone just used Ebay the way it says they should, then sniping would be pointless.

So, in conclusion Ebay is a complex organism which only biologists should study. Thank you and have a nice day.

Thanks, scottopoly. You've put your finger squarely on the trouble with proxy bidding. As you say, it's little more than sniping, but it's out in the open. And you're right when you say that snipers don't give proxy bidders a chance to react. You wouldn't be right, however, if you said that therefore sniping is somehow unethical.

EBay doesn't specify how people should bid. It's true that eBay's bidding system was structured with a real, live auction in mind. But online bidding doesn't work that way because it can't be open-ended, timewise. Many auctions would never end. So eBay had to vary its rules to put a finite limit on the amount of time allowed for bidding...three days, five days, seven days, or ten days at the pleasure of the seller. That set the scene for the "nibbling" of proxy bidders, who are trying to get an item for the least amount they can, and so bid in one-increment numbers. A sniper tries for the same result, but only bids his true max at the end of the auction and has to overcome all the max bids of the proxy bidders to win. It isn't unethical for two reasons: (1) eBay permits it, and (2) proxy bidders could use sniping techniques if they chose to do so. It's a level playing field for all bidders, and the high bid wins, just like in a real, live auction.

Something happened to a friend of mine (proxy bidder, no less). He was at a silent auction. I had never heard of this. This auction had several bottles of wine for sell, and the bidding on all of them stopped at the same time. Bidding was accomplished by "writing" a higher bid, above the previous (now 2nd highest) bidder. Each auction had it's own sheet of paper.

Well, someone came in at the last few seconds, and in essence, sniped him.

Not making any arguments for or against sniping. Just thought I'd share that.

Y'know, Rick, I've done that at silent auctions too, but it never occurred to me that I was sniping.

Although this is only my second posting, I have been sniping fir quite some time. It seems to me that the action of AS, converts the Ebay system of biddding into a sealed bid auction. This is how all your governmental contracts are supposed to be handled. Assuming that you have honest politians. I agree that since the service is available to anyone it is not morally or ethically wrong to use it. The person who is complaining that it is only available at a price has obviously not saved himself the hundreds of dollars that I have.

Ed,

You have a register date of 4/18/02 (for this forum). Have you been using AS? If yes, how long (if that's not personal).

Rick

AMH had the best answer to the original forum topic. (Does anyone remember what it was?) If AuctionSniper were to assist bidders in colluding with each other, it probably would violate eBay's rules and maybe also U.S. antitrust and unfair competition laws.

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Originally posted by TeeJay:
AMH had the best answer to the original forum topic. (Does anyone remember what it was?

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In case that isn't a rhetorical question, amh posted this on 5/23/03 on this topic and it was titled "Ringing".

And I agree - amh (Andrew) had the best answer to this topic.

[This message was edited by Rick on June 18, 2003 at 03:14 AM.]

To save others the trouble, here's amh's post:

"Ringing is a system whereby a group of people proposing to bid at an auction get togetehr and hold a private auction to see who will win an item on the basis that thereafter only the "winner" will bid at the real auction. The aim of course is to keep the price low for the benefit of the ringers.

"In the UK at least, this is a serious criminal offence and fraud.

"The suggestion is basically for AS to be an automated auction ring. It will not fly!"

I've been reading this with a lot of interest. It tickles me that those that say AS is unfair. I wish I had known about sniping when I first started bidding. I would get into SO many bidding wars and wound up paying a lot more for things than I normally would have. I think someone once termed it "Auction Fever." But anyway, I was looking through some auctions the other day and at the top of the page - where all of the advertisements are - I actually found someone selling software for sniping! So it seems to me - and I could be wrong (we all know how smart I am) - even eBay believes in snipers.

I like sniping. I rarely lose. It saves me money. I found 4 auction sniping services before I came to AS. Three were downloads and the other allowed me 10 free snipes a month but the lowest delay that you could use for free was 10 seconds. Still plenty of time for someone to outbid me and me not able to get back in time - especially if it was something that I wanted. Now if you wanted to pay $19.95 a month you could get unlimited snipes with a 3 second delay. I'm glad I found AS. I wish I would have found it sooner.

(Now if I could just get my free snipes from my buddy joining, hmmmmmmm)


Crafty

Six inches Lord, that's all I need!