Just trying to learn, so tell me what happened so I can see my mistake

If you're still there, let me know. Researching.

got to admit, even if you don't win.... this sure is alot more fun... I was about to give up on doing the "ebay" thing



Ok, I'm hanging on.... but the wife says it's time for bed... and Tropical Storm Bill is heading our way... I got some early morning prepariness shopping to do

[This message was edited by poseidonhealer on June 29, 2003 at 08:49 PM.]



I got Ebay live chat help online too.... lets see what they got to say.... she's looking at it now

[This message was edited by poseidonhealer on June 29, 2003 at 08:55 PM.]

I'm still here. Give me a few minutes. I'm as confused as you are. There's an answer - I just have to find. I'll be back.

*****

dam* it - I know there's an answer!!!! I just have to find it.

*****

OK - I think I've got it (I hope Andrew takes a look at this). I'll be back.

[This message was edited by Rick on June 29, 2003 at 08:47 PM.]

This is going to take 10 or 15 minutes.

[This message was edited by Rick on June 29, 2003 at 08:49 PM.]

Im getting there - ned some overtime.

[This message was edited by Rick on June 29, 2003 at 08:58 PM.]

Thank you! Your request has been sent. All requests are handled in the order received. Your wait time will be approximately 1 minute(s) and 6 seconds. Thank you for waiting.
You are now chatting with 'Melea P.'
Melea P.: Hello! Welcome to Live Help! My name is Melea. How can I help you today?
poseidonhealer: I don't understand the reason behind this bid winning, I'm not mad, the other guy had the higher bid, but I thought he'd have to win by 1.00 dollar http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=3032039208
poseidonhealer: just trying to understand, learn alittle
Melea P.: Let me look at that.
poseidonhealer: Sure...
Melea P.: Ok.
poseidonhealer: yes, I'm here
Melea P.: If the person before you put their maximum bid at a certain amount and it was under the next possible increment, they could still win because of proxy bidding. Does that make any sense at all?
Melea P.: This is what our help page says- it may explain it better: A bidder may be outbid by less than a full increment. This would happen if the winning bidder's maximum bid beats the second highest maximum by an amount less than the full increment.
poseidonhealer: but the bid would have to be dated (timed) before mine... right?
poseidonhealer: it would be timed before my bid... but more than my bid
Melea P.: Yes.
poseidonhealer: but the stamped time was after my bid...
poseidonhealer: one second after... he should have had to bid at 27.01
Melea P.: The bid history does not show all of the bids that actually take place in an auction. If the proxy bidding system takes over, it will not show all of the "back and forth" bidding between bidders, it will only show the initial bid. The person who won had the very first bid.
poseidonhealer: I understood that even if the same person made a bid, then later raises that bid with no other person bidding inbetween those two bids by the same person... the "bid counter" would show the bid but the "bidding history" would only show the one person bidding..... however this is not what happenned... he was out bidded, and did bid again until later
poseidonhealer: even if the poxy bidding would take over, it would stamp the poxy bid at the time the poxy bid was made....
Melea P.: Yes, you are right! You may want to write in and leave us an email so we can look into this further.
poseidonhealer: to who? can you be specific? which department or specific contact?
Melea P.: Sure. Let me give you a link.

[not sure what the previous was all about, but it's late - for me]

OK - bid history:

tmcdanl . . . . . . . $26.77 . . . . Jun-29-03 19:32:26 PDT
poseidonhealer . . .$26.01 . . . . Jun-29-03 19:32:25 PDT
michael mcbee . . .$15.00 . . . . Jun-29-03 15:58:47 PDT

michael's bid was $15. Your $26.01 bid only raised the price to $15.50 ($15 michael's bid + $.50 increment). For tmcdanl to place a bid, all they needed to bid was $15.50. Their bid did that, but they also jumped over your $26.01. They only had to place a bid that reached the next increment. Once they did that, tmcdanl was the top bidder.

This is very, very, very difficult stuff. Andrew (another member) has had to explain this to me THREE different times. If you don't lock onto it right away - don't worry. If you have more questions, keep asking. This is the first time I've been able understand this, so don't be bashful if it still doesn't make sense.

Tough, Tough - Stuff.

[This message was edited by Rick on June 29, 2003 at 09:23 PM.]

OK - I understand why you left that previous post. I'm a little slow tonight.

[This message was edited by Rick on June 29, 2003 at 09:24 PM.]

Way pass my "witching hour". Pick you up in the AM or another member will.

[This message was edited by Rick on June 29, 2003 at 09:26 PM.]

if the winning bidder placed his bid any time before I did, even if I later under bid, the winning bidder stamped time would be earlier than mine. I think that if he made is poxy bid at 26.77 which was higher than mine, it would show the time at which the bid was place.... not the time at which it won. The lead bidder would continue to show the lead (at the minimum amount to win) as long as his bid was the highest; but the stamped time would remain at the time he made the original proxy bid.

The bid history was hot the last minute of the game.


tmcdanl $26.77 Jun-29-03 19:32:26 PDT
poseidonhealer $26.01 Jun-29-03 19:32:25 PDT
michael_mcbee $15.00 Jun-29-03 15:58:47 PDT
deal4papertiger $12.00 Jun-29-03 19:32:14 PDT

deal4papertiger made his $12 bid at 19.32.14 which was not enough to bet the earlier poxy bid of michael_mcbee (notice the time of 15.58.47 and the amount of $15). I beat michael_mcbee's bid at 19.32.25 when I bet 26.01, but after that I don't see it.... tmcdan1 didn't make his bet before me and he didn't have to make the one dollar incement... actually, that's why I put the extra cent there... so that if I had been out bidded before my snipe, that person would win; but if a bid came in after my snipe, it would have to be a full dollar amout more and hopefully that guy wouldn't think to make it over 27 dollars even. That odd cent would have stumped him... that's my delima! why wasn't the "counter" snipe stumped?

[This message was edited by poseidonhealer on June 29, 2003 at 09:59 PM.]

[This message was edited by poseidonhealer on June 29, 2003 at 10:01 PM.]

>> deal4papertiger made his $12 bid at 19.32.14 which was not enough to bet the earlier poxy bid of michael_mcbee << - That's correct. deal4's bid caused the current price to be $12.50.

>> I beat michael_mcbee's bid at 19.32.25 when I bet 26.01 << - That's correct. You're snipe made the current price $15.50. For anyone to bid after you're snipe, ebay required that they place at least a $16 bid.

>> that's my delima! why wasn't the "counter" snipe stumped? << - Remember, ebay requires that a bidder needs to reach the NEXT bid increment - but not TWO bid increments.

Let me take another shot at it (have you ever looked at one of the drawings that after you stare at it for 5 minutes - you see The Enterprise? - This is like that, but it usually takes me longer.):
1) you were top bidder before tmcdanl. You made the current price $15.50 (michael's $15 bid + 1 ebay $.50 increment).
2) tmcdanl placed his bid. All he had to do was reach the NEXT increment to have his bid place, which would be $16. (current price of $15.50 + ONE ebay $.50 increment). He did that. His bid was placed, and it was higher then yours. But he didn't have to reach another increment (your bid of $26.01 + ANOTHER ebay $1 increment). That would mean that tmcdanl would had to have reached TWO ebay increments.

tmcdanl could have bid $26.02 and would have won.

>> That odd cent would have stumped him << - It usually does, but it seems like more people are doing that. On this auction, 4 of the 8 bids were odd amounts. You could say that tmcdanl odd bid was odder. You're bid would have saved you from a $25.00, or even a $26.00 bid - which was good thinking. But, I suspect that tmcdanl knows that more people are using $xx.01 amounts (you and david did). It looks like he's worked out a bid amount that takes care of that. I usually use $xx.25 or $xx.75 for the same reason, but $xx.77 is even better.

I think the successful days of $xx.01 are on the decline. It was a great idea when most people placed even dollar bids, let alone in $5 increments. But on most auctions there's usually a $xx.01 bid. A funny thing is: had you bet $27.00 (even dollar amount) - you would have won. The $xx.01 is a good strategy; The $xx.77 looks to be better.

This is very tough stuff. I've had it explained to me 3 different times, and it still turns my brain into Silly Putty.

The following is a link to posts left by amh (forum member). It's a lot of reading, so if you rather, we can work on this on your thread. Of the 15 posts that will be listed, 4 or 5 of them pertain to increment issue. There's 3 auctions on different threads where we discuss this increment phenomenon:

>> Click Here <<

Just after my bid, the rate shown to beat was "15.50", all the winning bidder had to do was have 16.00 or greater to place the bid, but also be greater than my bid of 26.01 to win. His was at 26.77, all my bid did was force his bid to poxy to the maximum he bid.

The seller got the most that anyone of us would have offered, I bet the winning bidder didn't think he would indeed be max'd out; eventhough he bidded with that safety odd cent.

Had the bidder bid 26.02 he would have won at 26.02, had he bid 26.99 he would have won at 26.99, had he bid even higher than the increment.... say he bid 27.99 all he would have paid was the 27.01


Yep, now that I look at it some more... the system has to work that way... that is a rule or "flow chart" that I can't see working any other way...

WOW... where's my jumper cables, my brain needs be recharged

[This message was edited by poseidonhealer on June 30, 2003 at 09:53 AM.]

Be right back.

* * * *

Yelp. YOU'VE GOT IT!

It's really strange when this happens, and although it makes for a challenging discussion, I'm glad it doesn't happen that often.

They couldn't figure it out on the ebay forum, that's how tough it is.