If two snipers are sniper the same auction, is auctionsniper smart enough ONLY TO PLACE THE HIGHER BID? No reason to bid against ourselves.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Both snipes are placed, and that's the "smart" thing to do.
(déjà vu)
(déjà vu)
Why, is there no honor among snipers? 
since they make more money on the higher price.
AS will place all snipes set up. It is not their job to sit and compare their entire data base of snipes to see if "sniper247" has a snipe on the same item as "sniper1189", and then determine which one is the higher and send only the higher snipe. It would be a total waste of time and resourses. It's much more economical, and therefore "smart" to just submit all the snipes.
Besides, AS users have the ability to make changes and deletions until 2 minutes before the close of an auction.
What I don't understand, is why it matters if AS submits snipes on the same auction from more than 1 sniper? The high bidder who "wins" (yes, Rick, I know you hate that word
) the auction is the the only person who would be charged for the snipe (presuming it was the sniper who "won"). The snipers with the lower bids will not be charged.
Besides, AS users have the ability to make changes and deletions until 2 minutes before the close of an auction.
What I don't understand, is why it matters if AS submits snipes on the same auction from more than 1 sniper? The high bidder who "wins" (yes, Rick, I know you hate that word
) the auction is the the only person who would be charged for the snipe (presuming it was the sniper who "won"). The snipers with the lower bids will not be charged.quote:
Originally posted by star_trkr:
What I don't understand, is why it matters if AS submits snipes on the same auction from more than 1 sniper? The high bidder who "wins" (yes, Rick, I know you hate that word
The chances of two AS snipers placing snipes on the EXACT SAME ITEM for the EXACT SAME DOLLAR AND CENTS AMOUNT is in itself pretty slim indeed. But in the extremely rare case where this happens, both snipes are submitted. What could better than that?
price at $10. I set snipe for $100, you set one for $101. They you pay $101 for the item instead of $11.
Waste of resources? More economical? What are you talking about? It seems like it is a BETTER use of resouces. One compare in a local database vs a HTTP request (or more depending on the way they do it) to a different machine. I think the first is a better use of resources.
"Not their job". What, do you think they have a ton of people sitting there and sniping by hand? It would take all of 2 minutes to set it up. They are NOT doing a free service. We are paying for this.
The ability to edit your bids up to 2 mintues before hand has NOTHING to do with this? It actually makes it easier. This way they can figure out all of the snipes for one item number and then only execute the one.
The only thing "smart" about it is that AS makes more money on the deal because the price paid for the item could be higher and 1% or more is more
Waste of resources? More economical? What are you talking about? It seems like it is a BETTER use of resouces. One compare in a local database vs a HTTP request (or more depending on the way they do it) to a different machine. I think the first is a better use of resources.
"Not their job". What, do you think they have a ton of people sitting there and sniping by hand? It would take all of 2 minutes to set it up. They are NOT doing a free service. We are paying for this.
The ability to edit your bids up to 2 mintues before hand has NOTHING to do with this? It actually makes it easier. This way they can figure out all of the snipes for one item number and then only execute the one.
The only thing "smart" about it is that AS makes more money on the deal because the price paid for the item could be higher and 1% or more is more
I'm not going to get into a technical argument with you. As for allocating AS resources, again I won't argue that beyond my prior post.
However I will point the most obvious flaw in your argument:
"price at $10. I set snipe for $100, you set one for $101. They you pay $101 for the item instead of $11."
In your statement above, you are obviously assuming there will be no other bidders/snipers other than "you" and "me." As far as anybody knows, the final price could be $114. There are still proxy bidders to contend with, manual snipers and other sniper services.
And quite franky, I do NOT want anyone to take the liberty of NOT submitting a snipe that I have set up to be placed. Especially a service that is being paid to place those snipes for me. If I didn't want the snipe to be placed, I wouldn't have set it up. And if I wasn't willing to pay that much, I wouldn't have set my snipe for that much.
Ebay has hiccups. Perhaps "your snipe" won't register in time and my lower snipe will still win. Perhaps the winning bid will be disallowed by the seller. Perhaps "your snipe" is less than a full increment higher, and because my lower snipe went in 3 seconds sooner I would still win.
It's not up to AS to decide whether or not to place my snipes. The agreement between AS and me, is to place my snipes and I pay them when my snipes win.
If your not satisfied with the user agreement, you do have a choice....
Meanwhile, you do not have the right to change the user agreement for the rest of us. If we set up our snipes, they are to be submitted.
However I will point the most obvious flaw in your argument:
"price at $10. I set snipe for $100, you set one for $101. They you pay $101 for the item instead of $11."
In your statement above, you are obviously assuming there will be no other bidders/snipers other than "you" and "me." As far as anybody knows, the final price could be $114. There are still proxy bidders to contend with, manual snipers and other sniper services.
And quite franky, I do NOT want anyone to take the liberty of NOT submitting a snipe that I have set up to be placed. Especially a service that is being paid to place those snipes for me. If I didn't want the snipe to be placed, I wouldn't have set it up. And if I wasn't willing to pay that much, I wouldn't have set my snipe for that much.
Ebay has hiccups. Perhaps "your snipe" won't register in time and my lower snipe will still win. Perhaps the winning bid will be disallowed by the seller. Perhaps "your snipe" is less than a full increment higher, and because my lower snipe went in 3 seconds sooner I would still win.
It's not up to AS to decide whether or not to place my snipes. The agreement between AS and me, is to place my snipes and I pay them when my snipes win.
If your not satisfied with the user agreement, you do have a choice....
Meanwhile, you do not have the right to change the user agreement for the rest of us. If we set up our snipes, they are to be submitted.
You tell 'im, star_trkr. As you said, he has an alternative if he doesn't like the way AS does business. And certainly, he doesn't have to be so obnoxious in harping...er, bringing the subject up over and over.
I definitely agree with star_trkr's and Steve's statements. star_trkr's comments got me to thinking about what would happen if AS didn't place a lower snipe. WELL, CAN YOU IMAGINE THE COMPLAINTS? The "This sucks" and "I'm pissed" would be showing up when ever that happened. AS's new email: "Sorry sir/madam, someone had a higher snipe. Although we provide a sniping service, we decided that this time we wouldn't provide a sniping service. Better luck next time, but you must remember not to be so cheap and make you snipe amount much higher."
Would the alternative be to have AS tell the lower sniper that someone has outbidded them before the close of the auction? The answer to that is, "AS exists -- and is paid -- to snipe, not to foster internecine warfare." - Steve 5/7/03 5:29 AM
Would the alternative be to have AS tell the lower sniper that someone has outbidded them before the close of the auction? The answer to that is, "AS exists -- and is paid -- to snipe, not to foster internecine warfare." - Steve 5/7/03 5:29 AM
Gunk/Clark just seems to want to start something 
I just do not understand why someone would want their snipe placed knowing that they have no chance to win. Would you post your bid by hand if you knew you were going to lose? All it does is drive the price up.
Yes I am assuming that the top two snipes are coming from AS, but even if they were not, there is NO DOWNSIDE FOR THE BIDDERS.
So you would get complaints from people because you got them the item for less money?
Next to the lower snipe you put. "Snipe not placed. User with higher snipe made your snipe useless" (the wording could be better, just an example)
Yes I am assuming that the top two snipes are coming from AS, but even if they were not, there is NO DOWNSIDE FOR THE BIDDERS.
So you would get complaints from people because you got them the item for less money?
Next to the lower snipe you put. "Snipe not placed. User with higher snipe made your snipe useless" (the wording could be better, just an example)
OK, one last time, question by question:
1. I just do not understand why someone would want their snipe placed knowing that they have no chance to win.
Why not? What harm does it do to the outbid sniper?
2. Would you post your bid by hand if you knew you were going to lose?
Sure. There's always the chance that the other guy will bilge out in some fashion and I'll win after all. And if not, it doesn't cost me anything. Just hedging my bets (see below also).
3. All it does is drive the price up.
That's the general idea. It'll give the other guy something to think about in the next auction. If you're suggesting that we should take pity on our fellow AS snipers when it comes down to bidding against them, you're a crowd of one, buddy. In that respect, you're pretty consistent.
1. I just do not understand why someone would want their snipe placed knowing that they have no chance to win.
Why not? What harm does it do to the outbid sniper?
2. Would you post your bid by hand if you knew you were going to lose?
Sure. There's always the chance that the other guy will bilge out in some fashion and I'll win after all. And if not, it doesn't cost me anything. Just hedging my bets (see below also).
3. All it does is drive the price up.
That's the general idea. It'll give the other guy something to think about in the next auction. If you're suggesting that we should take pity on our fellow AS snipers when it comes down to bidding against them, you're a crowd of one, buddy. In that respect, you're pretty consistent.
(sigh)
1 mississippi...
2 mississippi...
1 mississippi...
2 mississippi...
3 mississippi
4 mississippi....
4 mississippi....
>>1. I just do not understand why someone
>>would want their snipe placed knowing that
>>they have no chance to win.
>Why not? What harm does it do to the outbid
>sniper?
not the point. It does harm to the winning sniper. I guess some people get pleasure out of harming others.
>>2. Would you post your bid by hand if you knew
>>you were going to lose?
>Sure. There's always the chance that the other
>guy will bilge out in some fashion and I'll win >after all. And if not, it doesn't cost me >anything. Just hedging my bets (see below also).
I guess, but not that often and it is not like there is a program out they that will cancel my bid with 3 seconds left
>>3. All it does is drive the price up.
>That's the general idea. It'll give the
>other guy something to think about in the
>next auction. If you're suggesting that
>we should take pity on our fellow AS
>snipers when it comes down to bidding against
>them, you're a crowd of one, buddy. In that >respect, you're pretty consistent.
Don't think I am in a crowd of one. Maybe in your group you want to make others pay more. Not pity, just curtisey.
>>would want their snipe placed knowing that
>>they have no chance to win.
>Why not? What harm does it do to the outbid
>sniper?
not the point. It does harm to the winning sniper. I guess some people get pleasure out of harming others.
>>2. Would you post your bid by hand if you knew
>>you were going to lose?
>Sure. There's always the chance that the other
>guy will bilge out in some fashion and I'll win >after all. And if not, it doesn't cost me >anything. Just hedging my bets (see below also).
I guess, but not that often and it is not like there is a program out they that will cancel my bid with 3 seconds left
>>3. All it does is drive the price up.
>That's the general idea. It'll give the
>other guy something to think about in the
>next auction. If you're suggesting that
>we should take pity on our fellow AS
>snipers when it comes down to bidding against
>them, you're a crowd of one, buddy. In that >respect, you're pretty consistent.
Don't think I am in a crowd of one. Maybe in your group you want to make others pay more. Not pity, just curtisey.
5 mississippi...
6 mississippi...
6 mississippi...
I've made this comment in the equivalent post in the suggestions forum, but what sonofagunk is suggesting is a pretty unsophisticated auction fraud!
yes, i also posted a reply to this in the other forum. And basically YOU ARE ALL WRONG. sonofagunk has a very good point. It is only practical not to place that extra bid which is guaranteed not to win. Basically, the points you all have brought up against sonofagunk are (1) it is not AS's "job" to do this, (2) it will not affect the lower bidder and therefore is pointless to cancel HIS bid, (3) I don't want AS cancelling snipes for me(!!!@), and (4) there is a slim chance that that the higher snipe will be too late and that lower snipe would have won,
(1) AS's job is to provide an alternate way to bid on Ebay, It is their "JOB" to enact any enhancements which may save their clients money. Don't talk bull**** about AS's "job".
(2) Like my ass it won't affect the lower bidder, the "lower bidder" reaps the awards when he is the "higher bidder" and then ANOTHER SNIPE is cancelled which would have only boosted the price.
(3) Yes, some people would probably get their undergarments all up in a bunch over their snipe being cancelled. But hopefully, they would realize it is saving them money at the expense of the poor poor sellers.
(4) Yes, there is a SLIM chance of this. Slim like each hair on my chinny chin chin. The benefits far outweigh any chance that the higher bid is lost, or that the person with the higher bid refuses to buy.
SO, clearly this is a great money saving (for AS'ers) thing which is great!! You all seemed to miss this fact somehow, and instead brought up inane points about how your snipe is sacred, and shall not be cancelled without your full written consent. And then when you had no way to debunk his ideas, you started typing long words with M's, I's, S's, and P's.
In fact, this idea is SO GREAT, that it would be illegal! as amh pointed out. The end result is a fully contained bidding war within AS with just AS'ers and then only one actually placing the bid on ebay. You have a criminally masterful mind sonofagunk.
Basically, any third party system which saves bidders money by lowering winning prices in an underhanded way is subject to scrutiny. And that is exactly the whole idea behind AS. I suspect that if AS becomes too popular then Ebay will take steps to disallow it. Even without sonofagunk's idea.
(1) AS's job is to provide an alternate way to bid on Ebay, It is their "JOB" to enact any enhancements which may save their clients money. Don't talk bull**** about AS's "job".
(2) Like my ass it won't affect the lower bidder, the "lower bidder" reaps the awards when he is the "higher bidder" and then ANOTHER SNIPE is cancelled which would have only boosted the price.
(3) Yes, some people would probably get their undergarments all up in a bunch over their snipe being cancelled. But hopefully, they would realize it is saving them money at the expense of the poor poor sellers.
(4) Yes, there is a SLIM chance of this. Slim like each hair on my chinny chin chin. The benefits far outweigh any chance that the higher bid is lost, or that the person with the higher bid refuses to buy.
SO, clearly this is a great money saving (for AS'ers) thing which is great!! You all seemed to miss this fact somehow, and instead brought up inane points about how your snipe is sacred, and shall not be cancelled without your full written consent. And then when you had no way to debunk his ideas, you started typing long words with M's, I's, S's, and P's.
In fact, this idea is SO GREAT, that it would be illegal! as amh pointed out. The end result is a fully contained bidding war within AS with just AS'ers and then only one actually placing the bid on ebay. You have a criminally masterful mind sonofagunk.
Basically, any third party system which saves bidders money by lowering winning prices in an underhanded way is subject to scrutiny. And that is exactly the whole idea behind AS. I suspect that if AS becomes too popular then Ebay will take steps to disallow it. Even without sonofagunk's idea.
Hey gang - HE'S BACK!
I knew he couldn't stay away.
I knew he couldn't stay away.
haha, ya, i'm sonofagunk
Why did you try to fool us by using a different username, and why do you keep hammering on this one subject even though you've already had the honest opinions of nearly everyone who posts in this venue regularly? I don't know about the others, but I'm getting tired of reading this stuff over and over and....
And why does he think he's fooling anyone? He's as obvious as cougar and his aka's.
And he hasn't figured out that artificially lowering the number of bids (and therefore the price) that a seller gets for an item would NOT go over well with sellers or e-Bay and no doubt cause them to try to get rid of sniping software. Not to mention the resulting dramatic increase in the I Hate Snipers Club's membership.
I'm somewhat doubtful that he even knows what he wants. He's never had a consistent issue. His thought process seem like a ping-pong ball bouncing in every direction. I think he just enjoys arguing.
I just cancelled a post saying basically the same thing, Rick. Maybe if we ignore his repeated posts on the same topic he'll find a new hobby.
He's the kind of person that it doesn't matter what the topic, he'll argue the opposite just hear himself talk. He just wants to stir up trouble and be the center of attention.
I do wish he would go inflict himself on some other community.
I do wish he would go inflict himself on some other community.
(but I had to make a new username because the other was cancelled).
Thanks for all the info. Got me to do research and find better options than AS. Steve is doing a real service to whom ever is running the company.
Just so you know, sniping requires 6 lines of perl code
1) to retrive page with the with the end time.
2) to calc the end time
3) to sleep that time
4) to retrive page with "bid confirm" that has the "key" in it
5) parse that page to get the "key"
6) retrive page that places the bid (i.e. place the bid)
seeing what is around here, I think this is the way to go. I am 5 for 5 with my system and saved myself $10-$20. My friends are very happy using it too.
Thanks for all the info. Got me to do research and find better options than AS. Steve is doing a real service to whom ever is running the company.
Just so you know, sniping requires 6 lines of perl code
1) to retrive page with the with the end time.
2) to calc the end time
3) to sleep that time
4) to retrive page with "bid confirm" that has the "key" in it
5) parse that page to get the "key"
6) retrive page that places the bid (i.e. place the bid)
seeing what is around here, I think this is the way to go. I am 5 for 5 with my system and saved myself $10-$20. My friends are very happy using it too.
'Bye....
We need to ignore Clark/Gunk/Scott/Whomever and just not pay him any more mind.
I think he's gone, Chatter. He's set up his own snipe program and prefers his own company to ours. That's why I wrote "'Bye...."
Oh jeez, I don't know where to start.. When I said that above, It was sarcasm, sorry it didn't come out.. after I posted I thought a winking smiley would have been nice, oh well (sigh). You probably think this is just another ploy for attention, and that I somehow really am 'sonofagunk'. But nope, sorry, so please, let's just drop that idea.
If you'd like to know how I could possibly post what I did without being of such dastardly persistent character of 'sonofagunk' (I suppose that's the trouble you're having), it is because I read all of your "honest opinions" and disagreed with all of them. The idea of reconciling bids within AS is viable practically, but not ethically, (and therefore would, yes, piss off ebay, the sellers, etc.) That's what I was getting at at the end of my first post. All YOU people said was that it wouldn't work/ wasn't a good idea FOR AS'ers, and I disagree with that. My exposition must be lacking since fordfalcons was clearly too dense to see my point. or maybe he just didn't read that far..(I would explain my point more clearly after rereading my first post, but you all seem to have closed your ears to meaningful debate, so **** it) Lemme just say that when I first read gunk's idea I thought it was a "horrible suggestion" (quoting myself from gunk's other thread)
[bold]Is it not the purpose of the forum to debate ideas? If I disagree should I not post? If you think that this idea has been beaten to death THEN DO NOT CHECK THIS THREAD anymore. Why do you instead choose to 'make fun of him till he goes away'?[/bold] That is my real qualm with you all: your persistant and pointless attack of sonofagunk, when all he does is defend his point. (I realize that by defending him here, any simple minded people will probalby now have more reason to think I am him... oh well)
Rick said:
This tends to happen when you treat two clearly different people as one.
So if you get just one thing out of this post it is that clark and gunk are the same person (as he explained), and I am Scott, any arguments otherwise will probably seriously annoy me (not that that matters for you though...).
If you'd like to know how I could possibly post what I did without being of such dastardly persistent character of 'sonofagunk' (I suppose that's the trouble you're having), it is because I read all of your "honest opinions" and disagreed with all of them. The idea of reconciling bids within AS is viable practically, but not ethically, (and therefore would, yes, piss off ebay, the sellers, etc.) That's what I was getting at at the end of my first post. All YOU people said was that it wouldn't work/ wasn't a good idea FOR AS'ers, and I disagree with that. My exposition must be lacking since fordfalcons was clearly too dense to see my point. or maybe he just didn't read that far..(I would explain my point more clearly after rereading my first post, but you all seem to have closed your ears to meaningful debate, so **** it) Lemme just say that when I first read gunk's idea I thought it was a "horrible suggestion" (quoting myself from gunk's other thread)
[bold]Is it not the purpose of the forum to debate ideas? If I disagree should I not post? If you think that this idea has been beaten to death THEN DO NOT CHECK THIS THREAD anymore. Why do you instead choose to 'make fun of him till he goes away'?[/bold] That is my real qualm with you all: your persistant and pointless attack of sonofagunk, when all he does is defend his point. (I realize that by defending him here, any simple minded people will probalby now have more reason to think I am him... oh well)
Rick said:
quote:
I'm somewhat doubtful that he even knows what he wants. He's never had a consistent issue. His thought process seem like a ping-pong ball
bouncing in every direction.
This tends to happen when you treat two clearly different people as one.
So if you get just one thing out of this post it is that clark and gunk are the same person (as he explained), and I am Scott, any arguments otherwise will probably seriously annoy me (not that that matters for you though...).
I said "clark and gunk are the same person (as he explained)". After reading his other posts, he did NOT say this, he was instead saying that his new name 'sonofagunk2' is the same as 'sonofagunk' So, really, I don't know if he is Clark or not. But, I think he'd tell us if he were.
Hey Chatter, I didn't know you were a Trekker. Do you collect stuff off eBay? What is your favorite series?
quote:
Originally posted by star_trkr:
Hey Chatter, I didn't know you were a Trekker. Do you collect stuff off eBay? What is your favorite series?
1) Yes.
2) Only trading cards.
3) TOS, though I watched all
And I'll be dating myself a bit by admitting I watched TOS on it's original air dates as well as re-runs.
Live long and prosper!
Live long and prosper!