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64 replies

Feedback, is it worth it?

P papaluluMember
How many times have you had to wait weeks for feedback from sellers (If at all)? Why should they see what feedback is left them before giving feedback. How can you give an honest opinion, as you know any neg or neutral comments are likely to be returned undeserved.
Is there any Ebayers out there that agree that feedback should be a better guide to the service that has been given?
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P papaluluMember
There's an awful lot of blackmailers out there! An honest opinion of service/goods should not be a problem for creditable sellers. Why have sellers giving feedback anyway? If you don't pay you don't get! A system for reporting consistant non payers would suffice maybe?
You bid, you win, you pay, seller sends, which triggers a request for feedback from buyer no feedback sent back = non payer?????
G gardengnomeMember
Don't quite follow your last point, Papalulu, but I agree 100% with Serenity and treat my buyers similarly.

As I've suggested before in these pages, I believe that if no feedback has been left after 90 days an automatic positive should be credited to either or both parties. That way, those who 'just couldn't be bothered' can forget all about it.

GG

The Gods made Heavy Metal
and They saw that It was Good!
mrsmmrsmMember
quote:
As I've suggested before in these pages, I believe that if no feedback has been left after 90 days an automatic positive should be credited to either or both parties. That way, those who 'just couldn't be bothered' can forget all about it.


I think that is a pretty good idea! Wonder if it has ever been suggested?
P papaluluMember
quote:
Originally posted by Rick:
Stinky idea. If I decided not to leave feedback, then I decided NOT to leave feedback.


Why would you make a decision NOT to leave feedback? this would mean that there was obviously some problem! so why can't you feedback this info to others? ( Maybe you will get bad feedback returned?) Automatic feedback is a great idea, but not really personal which I believe is the point?
The other point was really that any fool can pay for an item, does that really need feedback? Just a punishment of sorts for non payers?
G gardengnomeMember
I'd be happy to have feedbacks without comments, just Yes, No or Maybe, but sometimes I want to make a point however. Recently I left a positive for a seller because his speed of service was all I could have wished for, and the item was more or less as promised, but I also used the feedback comment to call attention to his poor (read "stupid") packaging. No actual damage, but he just threw the thing into a carton that was three times too big - didn't worry about packing - and I paid postage on a carton mostly full of air halfway 'round the world! Can't let that go uncommented upon.

GG

The Gods made Heavy Metal
and They saw that It was Good!
G gardengnomeMember
I take a certain amount of pride in packing carefully, not least because I spent so many years working for the post office and saw what sort of treatment parcels can get - not to mention how incredibly poorly some people pack (a sheet of brown paper and a 'Fragile' sticker is not sufficient for a neon sign!).

Getting back to feedback comments for a moment, the only reason I look at my feedback page is to ascertain who the FB is from, not what they've said about me (I get so embarrassed reading all those glowing recommendations). Sometimes, as in one recent case, it's the only way to find out if my item has been delivered.

GG

The Gods made Heavy Metal
and They saw that It was Good!
rickrickMember
quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
Can't let that go uncommented upon.
Ditto – I can’t let that go uncommented upon.

So, what comment did you leave? Did you leave a negative, or AT LEAST a neutral? If you did leave a negative, did you wait until the seller left their feedback? Leaving any criticism in a positive feedback is the same as leaving a positive feedback (no medals for bravery there). No one (or damn few) will read more than a couple of comments (if that many). In this case, leaving NO feedback would be better (and definitely not having eBay automatically leave a positive after 90 days).

Editorial: People are so worried about their perfect feedback scores – reminds me of getting gold stars for good behavior in school.
mrsmmrsmMember
Buying from Ebay is certainly not like buying from JCPenny! I do read feedback of a seller. If he has negs, I read them and try( and that is the best a person can do, I think) to make an informed decision as to his business behavior. I do not, however, pay much attention to the buyer's feedback...unless they are bidding on an item that is several hundred dollars, up.
mrsmmrsmMember
GG, may I ask a quesion? I am wondering if the reason you left positive feedback with a message about his packaging was because you were pleased with the product, but just wanted him to be aware of his poor packaging so he would be more careful in the future? I think I would have handled that way or sent him an email saying I was giving him a positive,but I had a concern about his packaging. Because negatives are there to stay, I am very careful about what reason I give them.
P papaluluMember
I too read negs. if only to see if there is a recuring pattern, but I tend only to do this when buying. Who has time to check every single bidder on an auction? (there's bound to be one) Smile
I too recieved a badly packed article (soggy) but as it arrived within 24hrs of payment I left a "glowing recommendation" but emailed the seller to inform them of the problem. They were unaware of this and replied to thank me for pointing it out!
Another seller sent me an item that was 'freeware' I believe charging for other peoples goods to be wrong, but the seller had not sent me feedback so if I left bad feedback I'm sure it would have been returned. I instead left good feedback ( Coward)but named the software in the comment for anyone to see (If they read the positives!)
I am in future not going to leave feedback to sellers until they do but will continue to be kind to quick payers (I'm too generous) Razz
G gardengnomeMember
Serenity; Precisely! More of a gentle nudge than an outright condemnation. I don't know if this is his regular packing method do I? It might be a one-off because it was an unusually large item and perhaps he just didn't have enough bubble-wrap to go 'round.

If he reads it and takes the hint, well and good. If not, well I'm unlikely to buy from him again anyway, so what do I care? He hasn't posted feedback for me, incidentally.

Papalulu; I fully support the idea of not giving feedback to sellers who hold back even after you, the buyer, have completed your end of the bargain (Why would they post the item if you hadn't?). If enough buyers did this it might bring them into line, especially those who're a bit sensitive about high FB scores. I will be happy to join you.

Despite whatever impressions may have been given in this arena a perfect FB score is not my prime consideration; I am far more interested in fair dealing and common courtesy, on eBay and elsewhere.

The automatic FB idea that I have espoused above would tend to make any comments that were made far more meaningful in the sense that the posting party didn't have to comment but felt that comment was deserved - whether for or against.

GG

The Gods made Heavy Metal
and They saw that It was Good!
They said to play it Louder Than Hell.
We promised that we would!
mrsmmrsmMember
GG,as an exprerienced seller and buyer on Ebay, I fully concur with you! It is time for a little revamping of the feedback system.

quote:
The Gods made Heavy Metal
and They saw that It was Good!
They said to play it Louder Than Hell.
We promised that we would!

.............and now we know the rest of the story! Wink
G gardengnomeMember
I can't see there's much chance of eBay paying any attention. Maybe when the FB system collapses altogether..........

I really hate the idea of playing tit-for-tat with feedback and will not indulge in such games, but that's what it's coming to I think. I've suggested the idea of not posting FB to sellers who insist the buyer go first, and now Papalulu has brought it up again, I shall pursue that policy also.

GG

The Gods made Heavy Metal
and They saw that It was Good!
They said to play it Louder Than Hell.
We promised that we would!
Gonna tear the roof off with our sound,
Crack the walls 'n' shake the ground!
mrsmmrsmMember
GG, I was just thinking...it probably does little good, as the feedback system is set up today, to read it. If a majority of the people are afraid to post a negative because they might receive one in return, what true facts are we getting? I suppose the only true warning sign would be the seller that has maybe 6 negatives and 200 postitives, as an example. He must really be bad for so many to take that chance!

On my own behalf, I just must say, I do post what I feel, but I don't throw negatives around wildly. It is a serious thing as it is always there. I post feedback for customers as soon as they pay and I post feedback for sellers as soon as it is received, whether or not they have. If someone feels I deserve a negative, so be it. It would not be the end of the world. I truely do the best I can and it has worked!! Smile
rickrickMember
quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
More of a gentle nudge than an outright condemnation.
“Gentle nudge”? I suppose you could find a seller with several thousand feedbacks that would see it that way – but I think they would be very rare. Leaving a positive is all that will be remembered – and all that will be seen. Leave a neutral or leave a negative or leave nothing. Leaving a positive means that you had a “positive” experience. If it wasn’t a positive experience, then gentle-nudging in today’s times is most likely a waste of feedback space and counter productive. The seller has his positive, and that’s all that counts for him. You don’t reward inferior performance – at least you shouldn’t.

quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
I don't know if this is his regular packing method do I? It might be a one-off because it was an unusually large item and perhaps he just didn't have enough bubble-wrap to go 'round.
You are not leaving feedback based on the seller’s experience with all his other buyers, but on your own experience. If he robs your home, you don’t start discussing the homes he didn’t rob. You don’t start speculating about why he isn’t such a bad guy because he skipped all the other homes on your block.

quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
He hasn't posted feedback for me, incidentally.
I have suspected that my posts are irresistible.

quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
I fully support the idea of not giving feedback to sellers who hold back even after you
Sounds like we all agree (maybe a first) – automatic feedback after 90 days is a poopy idea.

Something to think about - check out a seller’s number of feedback left versus received. If they receive a lot more than they leave, maybe that’s a good reason not to do business with them. Also, you can check if they leave feedback first or last. Toolhaus ( http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs ) has a “Mutual Feedback” option, or you can even do it manually. There are some sellers that leave feedback when they ship (good sign in my books).

quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
If enough buyers did this it might bring them into line,
There is no “line”. Feedback is voluntary. Buyer and seller can opt not to feedback the other party. Again, if this is an issue, check the ratio between feedback left and gotten. If “left” is rotten; Then cut down on the seller’s “gotten”.

quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
Despite whatever impressions may have been given in this arena a perfect FB score is not my prime consideration
Now I know my posts are irresistible.

quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
The automatic FB idea that I have espoused above would tend to make any comments that were made far more meaningful in the sense that the posting party didn't have to comment but felt that comment was deserved - whether for or against.
I could say, “The automatic FB idea that you have espoused above would tend to INCREASE negative feedbacks.” It’s the “use them or lose them” mentality. Just admit it’s a poopy idea – you’re amongst friends.

quote:
Originally posted by M:
It is time for a little revamping of the feedback system.
“Revamping” to what? Grant it, feedbacks have problems, but they seem to have everything else all beat to hell. Come up with a system that doesn’t have flaws, or at least a system that is an improvement over the current system. eBay wouldn’t be as successful as they are if the feedback system didn’t work. Again, it’s not perfect, but what is? I also have a feeling that there’s some pretty smart people working at ebay that spend a heck of a lot more time thinking about this kind of stuff than a couple of us bored forum members.

Remember, it’s always easier to “fix” things the further you are removed from the actual job of fixing them.

quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
I can't see there's much chance of eBay paying any attention.
Since this is a full time job for them, they just might know something we don’t know. Maybe they would pay attention if someone actually came up with a good solution instead of only pointing out the problems, which something tells me they are more knowledgeable of then anyone on this forum (just a wild guess).

quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
Maybe when the FB system collapses altogether..........
Isn’t that just a little dramatic. Trust me – before The Collapse, ebay will see The Collapse coming, assuming there’s The Collapse coming. The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
I really hate the idea of playing tit-for-tat with feedback and will not indulge in such games
GG! GG! GG! It’s very simple (as you pointed out) – don’t play. You have your 100 positives. And, eBay isn’t about feedbacks – it’s about accumulating goodies (at a sexy price would be a definite plus), that hopefully won’t end up in the attic in a couple of weeks.



Editorial (beyond just feedbacks): I’ll admit to having a “positive” bias when it comes to eBay. I am completely blown away by the things I can buy on it. The number of users is just shy of miraculous. Like all of us, my bias is based on my personal eBay purchasing experiences. I have had a few (just a few) problems, but compared to other services, eBay is by far a first-class act. It’s easy to bash something as successful as eBay – it’s altogether something else to come up with a better solution. There’s just too many Monday Morning Quarterbacks that think they know better.



This should be an easy post to ignore – just the size of it 
alone almost guarantees that!
G gardengnomeMember
I have noticed lately however, that many sellers state up-front in their description and payment terms that they expect the buyer to "complete" the transaction by leaving feedback, thereby reinforcing the blackmail notion.

Most of these will say it's because they've been burned by bad buyers (and probably only one, if any) and now they threaten to bad-mouth everyone unless they get a pat on the back first.

Perhaps feedback could be allocated and made public only after both parties have responded. If one fails to leave any then the other's is cancelled?

GG

That's all folks!
mrsmmrsmMember
GG, I don't know if there is a pat answer. You are dealing with all types of personalties. I feel the best approach is to say what you mean and mean what you say! Otherwise, if the product is bad, say so, if it is good say so. If it is neither, there is an option for that too.

Not everyone gives me feedback, but none the less, I still give them their feedback and I never admonish anyone for not leaving any. That is their choice do do so or not.

On Ioffer, you simply exchange emails with each other that are public record. I have noticed that very few carry through.
They also have a silly recommending system that means less than nothing. Overstock is about the same.

So, all that said...what is the answer? I honestly don't know.
J jabbergahMember
Serenity posted:
quote:
I feel the best approach is to say what you mean and mean what you say! Otherwise, if the product is bad, say so, if it is good say so. If it is neither, there is an option for that too.

Not everyone gives me feedback, but none the less, I still give them their feedback and I never admonish anyone for not leaving any. That is their choice do do so or not.
That's how I operate! I am somewhat humored by buyers & sellers that send e-mails "Please don't forget to leave FB", or "I'll leave FB when you do." It's almost as if the whole point of the ebay transaction is to GET FEEDBACK!?! For ME, the whole point of the transaction is to GET or SELL some trinket/gizmo that I want/or want to get rid of!

Feedback isn't the utopian solution, but it's not that bad either. Dealing with sellers that have negs has not generally been bad for me. In fact, some of the best deals I got on ebay (magazine subscriptions) was from a seller that received a FLOOD of negatives right around the time & shortly after I purchased from him! He went NARU before I got my first issues!?! I couldn't even thank him when my subscriptions began arriving!

I haven't gotten a neg. yet, so maybe my outlook on FB will change at that time! Wink
rickrickMember
quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
… thereby reinforcing the blackmail notion.
“Blackmail”? It’s just feedback.

quote:
Originally posted by Gardengnome:
Perhaps feedback could be allocated and made public only after both parties have responded. If one fails to leave any then the other's is cancelled?
You might find this interesting reading:
X marks the spot     >> X <<

A possible drawback to your suggestion - the “A Neg For A Neg” (alias “An Eye For An Eye”) types might be critical of that suggestion.

Another possible criticism is that it might encourage people to actually leave MORE negs. After all, since people currently understand that if they leave a neg, they are more apt to receive one, perhaps this causes some to be more cautious and less frivolous with negs.

I’m getting mixed priorities from your suggestions. On the one hand you seem to want people to leave more feedbacks (automatic 90-day suggestion) so that everyone’s feedback scores are higher, but then you seem to want them to leave less negative feedbacks so everyone’s feedback scores are better - or something. Don’t know if it’s one specific aspect of the feedback system, or if you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and get a new baby and new bathwater and a new tub (maybe the Mom can stay)?

There is also this characteristic of the current feedback system – it’s nondiscriminatory (now hear me out). Whatever the flaws and however minor the flaws are in the feedback system, they tend to impact everyone alike. So, anyone experienced (more than 5 minutes) learns to filter feedback scores (a.k.a. - being a little objective). There’s always going to be a few crackpots (everywhere) that overreact and leave unwarranted negs, but we all understand that (or should), and adjust our opinions accordingly (or should).

Here’s something I haven’t seen posted before – if I see a seller with a recent neg (who in their right mind cares about an active ebayer with a neg from 6 months ago?), I’ll check to see what the other party did. Believe it or not, there are some sellers that don’t always leave retaliatory negs. When I see that, I do my Judge Judy bit and rule in favor of the seller regardless of the comments either party left (ever notice that the comments in negs are the equivalent of, “My poopy isn’t stinky”?).
rickrickMember
quote:
Originally posted by Rick:
Editorial: People are so worried about their perfect feedback scores – reminds me of getting gold stars for good behavior in school.
I just thought of something – ebay has their Feedback Stars. Grant it, there isn’t a gold one, but yellow is close. I told you there’s some pretty smart people working at ebay.
A alarysMember
As a seller, I never leave feedback before a buyer does. I do NOT consider it blackmail in any way at all, but just a good way of protecting my business. I strongly disagree with what some of you are saying regarding this. Part of the transaction is that the buyer receives the item and checks to make sure that it is as described, then properly reporting their experience. If something gets damaged or they don't know how to set it up, they should give the seller an opportunity to work with them and explain things AS PART OF THE EXPERIENCE. I sell a lot of computer parts and electronics, and you would be shocked at the number of people that tell me things like.. "You shipped me the wrong processor!!!" and it turns out that their BIOS is set incorrectly. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT COULD HARM MY INCOME POTENTIAL - with me doing NOTHING wrong. If they email me, I just TEACH them how to work with computer hardware and everyone is all happy. Funny how everyone thinks they're a tech on the other side of email.

Things to consider: as a seller, my ability to MAKE an income relies heavily on my eBay reputation - which translates to feedback. Buyers on the other hand, come and go and don't have the heavy responsibility of making sure their feedback is immaculate or they might not be able to pay rent! Let's face it, there are a lot of very unprofessional or just not-technically-inclined (in my case) people that pop up throughout the eBay community. If I wait on the feedback and someone has a problem, then they are more likely to contact me for resolution. If I don't, they might just leave me a nasty gram that will make the next buyer question my integrity when the problem was really a simple setting that would've taken me all of 2 minutes to explain in an email. I always bend over backwards for customers to make it easier on them or to explain how things work and they have ALWAYS left happy. I have found that this system, for me, has always guaranteed better relationships with customers. I pride myself on my honesty and ethics and through proper communication have found that I am able to maintain 100% positive feedback and build better relationships with my customers. They all seem to love me for some reason! Funny, I don't think any of them have ever felt that I've blackmailed them.

Just my $.02

-Alarys
mrsmmrsmMember
Alarys, I do understand where you are coming from. Your business is a little different than mine. I cannot imagine someone leaving a bad feedback for a person however, unless he refused to solve a situation. But then, I have seen people leave neutrals and say the product and shipping was excellent! Go figure!!
S smartwnMember
I also understand where Alarys is coming from. I always believed that sellers should first give a positive feedback for fast payment...then I became a seller and had an incredibly nasty experience with a buyer, who left me a negative feedback accusing me of fraud without even contacting me to try and make the problem right. I now NEVER leave feedback to buyers unless they leave me feedback first.
B bjones9942Member
I'm sorry, I still believe that as a buyer, if I've paid on a timely basis I have fulfilled my obligations towards a positive feedback.

In the cpu example I would simply respond to a neg feedback with, 'my glasses didn't allow me to see far enough to determine his actual motherboard. Sent the item he bid on.'

When leaving feedback I mention both the positives (great packaging!) and the negatives (slow shipping) as they apply. When considering buying from a seller I do look at feedbacks, but only to see if there are recent, recurring problems.
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