New sniper here. Was just wondering if AS has an existing snipe alert for items I would like to snipe, but for which a snipe has been made by someone else.
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Clark,
AS doesn't reveal any member's snipe information to any other member. You can imagine how upset you would be if another one us knew about your snipe.
AS acts the same way as any number of manual snipers would do on ebay. So, your safe.
Also, don't leave 1 second snipes. Best to use 8 seconds, and 15 to 30 on Sundays. AS is very reliable, but one of the areas that cause the most problems are low lead times. Don't worry about 8 seconds - almost impossible for a manual sniper to respond to your snipe with only 8 seconds notice.
Hope you enjoy AS, and come back if more questions.
AS doesn't reveal any member's snipe information to any other member. You can imagine how upset you would be if another one us knew about your snipe.
AS acts the same way as any number of manual snipers would do on ebay. So, your safe.
Also, don't leave 1 second snipes. Best to use 8 seconds, and 15 to 30 on Sundays. AS is very reliable, but one of the areas that cause the most problems are low lead times. Don't worry about 8 seconds - almost impossible for a manual sniper to respond to your snipe with only 8 seconds notice.
Hope you enjoy AS, and come back if more questions.
My personal paypal address is: xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.com
Thanks Rick.
Based on a reading of the forum topics, I have been using 30 second leads for exact hour or half hour and Sunday ending auctions.
I am not worried about others learning about my snipes because as you said AS will not share that information with others.
My query is this: suppose I put a snipe on an item, and there is already an existing snipe on it from another AS member--what exactly is the AS policy?
Will AS (1)tell me that an existing snipe is already in place for the very same item (without saying who placed it) or
(2) AS will remain silent, place my snipe, and let the sniper with the least lead time win.
If it's (2)..isn't that a sort of a sniper war? Shouldn't there be honor among snipers and let he or she who placed the earlier snipe have priority? Or am I striving for too much idealism here?
so that it all boils down to the lead time.
, shouldn't AS inform me so, without necessarily saying who placed it?
Otherwise a sniper war could ensue.s would be
Based on a reading of the forum topics, I have been using 30 second leads for exact hour or half hour and Sunday ending auctions.
I am not worried about others learning about my snipes because as you said AS will not share that information with others.
My query is this: suppose I put a snipe on an item, and there is already an existing snipe on it from another AS member--what exactly is the AS policy?
Will AS (1)tell me that an existing snipe is already in place for the very same item (without saying who placed it) or
(2) AS will remain silent, place my snipe, and let the sniper with the least lead time win.
If it's (2)..isn't that a sort of a sniper war? Shouldn't there be honor among snipers and let he or she who placed the earlier snipe have priority? Or am I striving for too much idealism here?
so that it all boils down to the lead time.
, shouldn't AS inform me so, without necessarily saying who placed it?
Otherwise a sniper war could ensue.s would be
"Will AS (1)tell me that an existing snipe is already in place for the very same item (without saying who placed it)" - No
"(2) AS will remain silent, place my snipe, and let the sniper with the least lead time win." - No
Both snipes will get placed in accordance with their lead time. Who ever has the highest bid, changes from a bidder to a buyer. The exception to that is that the 2nd placed snipe could be higher than the 1st, but due to the bid increment not being reached, the higher snipe would not be placed. In the case of duplicate bid amounts, first one in gets it. Also, if it's a reserve auction, the reserve has to be reached.
"If it's (2)..isn't that a sort of a sniper war?" Yes, but it beats a proxy war.
" Shouldn't there be honor among snipers and let he or she who placed the earlier snipe have priority?" I'll let you have the honor; I want the merchandise. Plus, why should a snipe that someone place earlier have priority over a snipe with a higher bid amount?
" Or am I striving for too much idealism here?" Not sure if "idealism" is the right word, but I think you're "striving for too much" of something.
"so that it all boils down to the lead time." - Yes, and bid amount. As a sniper you only have to make 2 decisions: 1) lead time; 2) bid amount.
"shouldn't AS inform me so, without necessarily saying who placed it?" - No. It still wouldn't be fair. How does this sound: always assume there's another snipe. I don't think I've resolved this last issue for you, so hopefully someone else will give you a better explanation.
"(2) AS will remain silent, place my snipe, and let the sniper with the least lead time win." - No
Both snipes will get placed in accordance with their lead time. Who ever has the highest bid, changes from a bidder to a buyer. The exception to that is that the 2nd placed snipe could be higher than the 1st, but due to the bid increment not being reached, the higher snipe would not be placed. In the case of duplicate bid amounts, first one in gets it. Also, if it's a reserve auction, the reserve has to be reached.
"If it's (2)..isn't that a sort of a sniper war?" Yes, but it beats a proxy war.
" Shouldn't there be honor among snipers and let he or she who placed the earlier snipe have priority?" I'll let you have the honor; I want the merchandise. Plus, why should a snipe that someone place earlier have priority over a snipe with a higher bid amount?
" Or am I striving for too much idealism here?" Not sure if "idealism" is the right word, but I think you're "striving for too much" of something.
"so that it all boils down to the lead time." - Yes, and bid amount. As a sniper you only have to make 2 decisions: 1) lead time; 2) bid amount.
"shouldn't AS inform me so, without necessarily saying who placed it?" - No. It still wouldn't be fair. How does this sound: always assume there's another snipe. I don't think I've resolved this last issue for you, so hopefully someone else will give you a better explanation.
Let me ask you a few questions:
1a) What good would it do you if you knew that AS had another snipe for the same auction? 1b) Would you enlarge your bid? 1c) If yes, then why don't you enlarge your bid regardless of that information. Remember, always decide the most you're willing to pay, and use that as a snipe amount. If you can't decide the most you're willing to pay, then you'd probably be happier being a proxy bidder, because proxy bidders never have a clue how much they're willing to pay. That's why they're proxy bidders!
2a) Would you want to be notified if after you placed your snipe, someone else added a snipe? 2b) If yes, what if the snipe was placed 2 minutes before closing?
3a) If you did or did not place a snipe because AS told you there was another snipe, would you want AS to tell you if that other snipe was cancelled? 3b) If yes, what if the snipe was cancelled 2 minutes before closing?
4) You would only know about AS snipers. How would you learn about other snipers?
1a) What good would it do you if you knew that AS had another snipe for the same auction? 1b) Would you enlarge your bid? 1c) If yes, then why don't you enlarge your bid regardless of that information. Remember, always decide the most you're willing to pay, and use that as a snipe amount. If you can't decide the most you're willing to pay, then you'd probably be happier being a proxy bidder, because proxy bidders never have a clue how much they're willing to pay. That's why they're proxy bidders!
2a) Would you want to be notified if after you placed your snipe, someone else added a snipe? 2b) If yes, what if the snipe was placed 2 minutes before closing?
3a) If you did or did not place a snipe because AS told you there was another snipe, would you want AS to tell you if that other snipe was cancelled? 3b) If yes, what if the snipe was cancelled 2 minutes before closing?
4) You would only know about AS snipers. How would you learn about other snipers?
Answers to Rick's questions...
"1a) What good would it do you if you knew that AS had another snipe for the same auction? 1b) Would you enlarge your bid? 1c) If yes, then why don't you enlarge your bid regardless of that information."
Answer: In ebay if you place a bid, and there was an existing proxy bid on it, you will be notified that you have been outbid. You may then put in another higher bid or just quit. If AS knows that there is another snipe on the same item for a higher amount, shouldn't it let me know, so I can increase my own bid, if I wanted to?
Why would AS allow my snipe knowing fully well I would lose vis a vis the earlier & higher snipe?
Sure you always try to fix your max bid, but you can always change your mind...at least before the auction ends. Say I'm willing to pay $200 so I place my proxy bid. Someone snipes it for $210 and wins. Would I have been willing to pay $210? Yes. But I ran out of time, because the sniper did it at the "last" second. Of course, you would say, the sniper placed in a higher amount of $210 before the auction ended. True. But had this been a live auction, he would reveal his bid, and I get the chance to bid up if I want to and I would go up $10 more or so. He can also do the same until we reach a point where one of us will have to quit. This open bidding is something you cannot do in AS or Ebay where you have to deal with the end of auction time and sniper bids don't come in until the last second. In open live bidding, it is the price that ultimately is the clincher. A live auction has no fixed end time. In ebay and AS, it is the price and the time factor that matters. That's precisely why the AS slogan is: Bid at the last second. Automatically.
"2a) Would you want to be notified if after you placed your snipe, someone else added a snipe? 2b)" NO.
" If yes, what if the snipe was placed 2 minutes before closing?" NA
"3a) If you did or did not place a snipe because AS told you there was another snipe, would you want AS to tell you if that other snipe was cancelled? NO. I will just keep on trying and see if it allows it. To expect AS to notify me of cancellations, would be to place too much a burden on the system considering the time deadlines of so many auctions.
" 3b) If yes, what if the snipe was cancelled 2 minutes before closing?" NA
"4) You would only know about AS snipers. How would you learn about other snipers?"
I do not expect to learn of other snipes from other sniper "houses" but again as I said, among those who belong to the same "house", there should be honor or whatever it is you want to call it.
"1a) What good would it do you if you knew that AS had another snipe for the same auction? 1b) Would you enlarge your bid? 1c) If yes, then why don't you enlarge your bid regardless of that information."
Answer: In ebay if you place a bid, and there was an existing proxy bid on it, you will be notified that you have been outbid. You may then put in another higher bid or just quit. If AS knows that there is another snipe on the same item for a higher amount, shouldn't it let me know, so I can increase my own bid, if I wanted to?
Why would AS allow my snipe knowing fully well I would lose vis a vis the earlier & higher snipe?
Sure you always try to fix your max bid, but you can always change your mind...at least before the auction ends. Say I'm willing to pay $200 so I place my proxy bid. Someone snipes it for $210 and wins. Would I have been willing to pay $210? Yes. But I ran out of time, because the sniper did it at the "last" second. Of course, you would say, the sniper placed in a higher amount of $210 before the auction ended. True. But had this been a live auction, he would reveal his bid, and I get the chance to bid up if I want to and I would go up $10 more or so. He can also do the same until we reach a point where one of us will have to quit. This open bidding is something you cannot do in AS or Ebay where you have to deal with the end of auction time and sniper bids don't come in until the last second. In open live bidding, it is the price that ultimately is the clincher. A live auction has no fixed end time. In ebay and AS, it is the price and the time factor that matters. That's precisely why the AS slogan is: Bid at the last second. Automatically.
"2a) Would you want to be notified if after you placed your snipe, someone else added a snipe? 2b)" NO.
" If yes, what if the snipe was placed 2 minutes before closing?" NA
"3a) If you did or did not place a snipe because AS told you there was another snipe, would you want AS to tell you if that other snipe was cancelled? NO. I will just keep on trying and see if it allows it. To expect AS to notify me of cancellations, would be to place too much a burden on the system considering the time deadlines of so many auctions.
" 3b) If yes, what if the snipe was cancelled 2 minutes before closing?" NA
"4) You would only know about AS snipers. How would you learn about other snipers?"
I do not expect to learn of other snipes from other sniper "houses" but again as I said, among those who belong to the same "house", there should be honor or whatever it is you want to call it.
Clark, the whole point of sniping--be it manual, AS or otherwise--is to decide your max, do nothing during the auction, let the proxy bidders duke it out, then come in at the last second and (hopefully) take the prize.
Since you get ONE and ONLY ONE opportunity to bid, it MUST be your absolute max. If you are willing to say that you would have bid $10 more to win, then you ARE NOT BIDDING YOUR TRUE MAX. Your max is the absolute most you are willing to pay under ANY circumstances--regardless of how many other bidders there are, how many snipers there are, what the reserve price is,what the current bid is, what alabi Scott Petersen has this week, etc. That is why Rick was trying to say that none of the other information really matters.
If one cannot decide on a TRUE max and stick with it, then sniping is an utter waste of time. This is not intended to be critical; it is intended to hekp you understand sniping in general and AS in particular.
Since you get ONE and ONLY ONE opportunity to bid, it MUST be your absolute max. If you are willing to say that you would have bid $10 more to win, then you ARE NOT BIDDING YOUR TRUE MAX. Your max is the absolute most you are willing to pay under ANY circumstances--regardless of how many other bidders there are, how many snipers there are, what the reserve price is,what the current bid is, what alabi Scott Petersen has this week, etc. That is why Rick was trying to say that none of the other information really matters.
If one cannot decide on a TRUE max and stick with it, then sniping is an utter waste of time.
This is not intended to be critical; it is intended to hekp you understand sniping in general and AS in particular.
Challenging discussion. This is starting to remind me of "60 Minutes' Dole/Clinton - Clinton/Dole".
Neither one of us is going to change the other's opinion on this one. Perhaps some fresh blood will come in and take up your challenge or help crusade it.
"In ebay if you place a bid, and there was an existing proxy bid on it, you will be notified that you have been outbid. You may then put in another higher bid or just quit." - That's the reason we snipe. We want to avoid bidding wars. If AS did what you suggest, instead of bidding wars we would have sniping wars, albeit, they would be virtual wars. In a previous post, you said, "isn't that a sort of a sniper war?" By not alerting the other sniper, no war takes place. Causalities are not enlarged by the "passion of battle".
"If AS knows that there is another snipe on the same item for a higher amount, shouldn't it let me know, so I can increase my own bid, if I wanted to?" - Snipers bid their max. This isn't proxy bidding.
"Why would AS allow my snipe knowing fully well I would lose vis a vis the earlier & higher snipe?" - It makes it FAIR for the seller. AS does the same thing you would do if you were a manual sniper. If it didn't, I think ebay would pull their plug.
"Would I have been willing to pay $210? Yes. But I ran out of time, because the sniper did it at the "last" second." - I agree, but you lost to a sniper. Do you want to be a sniper or a proxy bidder? Are you going thru proxy-bidder-withdrawal? I've heard of this, but it doesn't usually have such sever symptoms. Two successful snipes should cure this.
"But had this been a live auction, he would reveal his bid, and I get the chance to bid up..." - I agree, but this isn't a live auction, at least in the sense that you described. Maybe you need to discuss this with ebay.
"This open bidding is something you cannot do in AS or Ebay where you have to deal with the end of auction time and sniper bids don't come in until the last second." = I agree, but maybe you need to discuss this with ebay.
"In open live bidding, it is the price that ultimately is the clincher. A live auction has no fixed end time." - I agree, but maybe you need to discuss this with ebay.
"In ebay and AS, it is the price and the time factor that matters." - I agree, but ebay is the Dog, and AS is the Tail. Maybe you need to discuss this with the Dog.
Consider the word "sniper". If two enemy snipers came across each other in the "battle field" (AS), would you expect them to give the opposing sniper knowledge of their presence?
"there should be honor or whatever it is you want to call it." - How can you use the word "honor"? Are you suggesting that AS not place multiple snipes which will reduce the closing price? Are you suggesting that it would be "honorable" for AS to screw the seller out that additional profit? Are you suggesting that the seller would view that as "honorable"? Are you suggesting that snipers need the extra advantage of stealing from the seller to have "honor". Are you suggesting that snipers can't survive by "playing-by-the-rules"? Are you suggesting that snipers shouldn't snipe other snipers? Are you suggesting that snipers have to cheat? Are you suggesting that ... just what are you suggesting? (That was fun - I feel a lot better now.)
P.S. - Look at Sara's post on this topic. It appears she can be "bought". Although, I have a feeling she doesn't come cheap.
Chatter - Oops
. Hope I didn't step on your toes, but I've put too much time into this not to post it ("fresh blood"!).
Neither one of us is going to change the other's opinion on this one. Perhaps some fresh blood will come in and take up your challenge or help crusade it.
"In ebay if you place a bid, and there was an existing proxy bid on it, you will be notified that you have been outbid. You may then put in another higher bid or just quit." - That's the reason we snipe. We want to avoid bidding wars. If AS did what you suggest, instead of bidding wars we would have sniping wars, albeit, they would be virtual wars. In a previous post, you said, "isn't that a sort of a sniper war?" By not alerting the other sniper, no war takes place. Causalities are not enlarged by the "passion of battle".
"If AS knows that there is another snipe on the same item for a higher amount, shouldn't it let me know, so I can increase my own bid, if I wanted to?" - Snipers bid their max. This isn't proxy bidding.
"Why would AS allow my snipe knowing fully well I would lose vis a vis the earlier & higher snipe?" - It makes it FAIR for the seller. AS does the same thing you would do if you were a manual sniper. If it didn't, I think ebay would pull their plug.
"Would I have been willing to pay $210? Yes. But I ran out of time, because the sniper did it at the "last" second." - I agree, but you lost to a sniper. Do you want to be a sniper or a proxy bidder? Are you going thru proxy-bidder-withdrawal? I've heard of this, but it doesn't usually have such sever symptoms. Two successful snipes should cure this.
"But had this been a live auction, he would reveal his bid, and I get the chance to bid up..." - I agree, but this isn't a live auction, at least in the sense that you described. Maybe you need to discuss this with ebay.
"This open bidding is something you cannot do in AS or Ebay where you have to deal with the end of auction time and sniper bids don't come in until the last second." = I agree, but maybe you need to discuss this with ebay.
"In open live bidding, it is the price that ultimately is the clincher. A live auction has no fixed end time." - I agree, but maybe you need to discuss this with ebay.
"In ebay and AS, it is the price and the time factor that matters." - I agree, but ebay is the Dog, and AS is the Tail. Maybe you need to discuss this with the Dog.
Consider the word "sniper". If two enemy snipers came across each other in the "battle field" (AS), would you expect them to give the opposing sniper knowledge of their presence?
"there should be honor or whatever it is you want to call it." - How can you use the word "honor"? Are you suggesting that AS not place multiple snipes which will reduce the closing price? Are you suggesting that it would be "honorable" for AS to screw the seller out that additional profit? Are you suggesting that the seller would view that as "honorable"? Are you suggesting that snipers need the extra advantage of stealing from the seller to have "honor". Are you suggesting that snipers can't survive by "playing-by-the-rules"? Are you suggesting that snipers shouldn't snipe other snipers? Are you suggesting that snipers have to cheat? Are you suggesting that ... just what are you suggesting? (That was fun - I feel a lot better now.)
P.S. - Look at Sara's post on this topic. It appears she can be "bought". Although, I have a feeling she doesn't come cheap.
Chatter - Oops
. Hope I didn't step on your toes, but I've put too much time into this not to post it ("fresh blood"!).
I think your first reply said all I need to know about you. All you want is the merchandise. Your reply has several non sequiturs and falacious arguments in them. But I will not bother to point them out or even dignify them with an answer.
For Chatter:
Thanks for your reply. I have no problem with sniping. My query as I have said before is: why will AS let me place a snipe if it knows there is another earlier and higher snipe than mine for in that case my snipe would be futile?
Shouldn't AS at least inform me that there is an existing higher snipe and ask me if I would like to increase my bid? That is the essence of my original post. Thus, I called it "Existing Snipe Alert". But apparently I didn't express it well enough and it got blown way out of proportion.
Rick says it's to make it fair for the seller. But isn't it true that allowing me to increase my snipe will be more beneficial to the seller?
A better reason would have been that AS will not bill me for non winning auctions. Thus it has no obligation to so inform me.
While this first foray in the forum may not have gone as smooth as I may have expected, it at least revealed the character of some people in this forum.
CH
Thanks for your reply. I have no problem with sniping. My query as I have said before is: why will AS let me place a snipe if it knows there is another earlier and higher snipe than mine for in that case my snipe would be futile?
Shouldn't AS at least inform me that there is an existing higher snipe and ask me if I would like to increase my bid? That is the essence of my original post. Thus, I called it "Existing Snipe Alert". But apparently I didn't express it well enough and it got blown way out of proportion.
Rick says it's to make it fair for the seller. But isn't it true that allowing me to increase my snipe will be more beneficial to the seller?
A better reason would have been that AS will not bill me for non winning auctions. Thus it has no obligation to so inform me.
While this first foray in the forum may not have gone as smooth as I may have expected, it at least revealed the character of some people in this forum.
CH
Clark, I don't know where I was while this discussion was being carried on, but I'd like to say that I agree with those who say it doesn't matter so long as you bid your max. But a shorter answer is that AS doesn't know whether two of its sniper-members have potentially competing snipes set up on the same item. Why not? Because AS doesn't compare member bids. That's not its function. AS exists -- and is paid -- to snipe, not to foster internecine warfare. Its contract with each member is the same: "You tell us how much you want to bid on what, and when you want the bid to go in, and for a fee if you win we'll do that." There's nothing in there about warning subscribers about potentially conflicting snipes. And, in fact, I wonder how often such situations arise if ever. I think it'd be a tremendous waste of computer resources maintaining a continual watch for them.
That's my $.02 worth.
That's my $.02 worth.
If there were such a thing and snipers knew what the other one was bidding and kept raising their bids accordingly, there would be no point to AS. They'd just be having bidding wars and driving up the price. The only difference is that eBay wouldn't get the final result until just before the auction's end.
Steve:
Your 2 cents is right on the money. And you kept to the issue. Thanks.
Fordfalcons:
Thanks for your comments. You do have a point.
Your 2 cents is right on the money. And you kept to the issue. Thanks.
Fordfalcons:
Thanks for your comments. You do have a point.
quote:
Originally posted by clarkhawkins:
I think your first reply said all I need to know about you. All you want is the merchandise. Your reply has several non sequiturs and falacious arguments in them. But I will not bother to point them out or even dignify them with an answer.
Clark, you may not have understood what Rick was trying to say here. We can assure you that he is NOT lacking in integrity in any way, and you really ought not to jump to any premature conclusion.
His comment about wanting the merchandise was made, I believe, somewhat tongue in cheek. I say this because we forum regulars have come to know Rick's style and posting. He is quite fair-minded; he just has a short fuse where proxy bidding is concerned, and somewhat rightfully so.
We here--yourself included--ALL "want the merchandise," or else we would not even be using a sniping service. I think Rick surmised that somehow you were making presuppositions about the nature and "morality" of sniping. There are some eBay members--obviously not AS members--who somehow think that sniping is "unfair" and that for some emotion-laden reason, the high bidder should not win every auction. These are proxy bidders who do not bid their max, and apparently it bothers them that someone else does. Your presence here would suggest that, to a large extent, you also reject this premise, since you are obviously a sniper. But your original post, with its query about being alerted to other snipes, before they even occur, and remarks about "honor among snipers," seemed somewhat reminiscent of that creed.
I think that it was prompted Rick's semi-facetious response (he will correct me if I am mistaken), and I think that you will generally find his remarks eminently worthy of response.
Another point - There are many sniping tools out there besides AS. So, even if AS did compare bids, you still would only know a subset of the potential snipes out there.
So if AS did tell you if there was another snipe placed on the item, you would only be slightly better off. There still may be another snipe (via another tool or manual), that you wouldn't have known about and if your snipe wasn't your maximum - you're out of luck.
As Chater said, bidding has to change when you snipe, you olny get one chance, so it's got to be your max.
As far as Rick goes - I agree with Chatter - he's one of the great resources on this forum. We all have our pet peeves, and Proxy Bidders is one of Rick's. I happen to agree with Rick on Proxy Bidders, although, maybe not as passionately.
So if AS did tell you if there was another snipe placed on the item, you would only be slightly better off. There still may be another snipe (via another tool or manual), that you wouldn't have known about and if your snipe wasn't your maximum - you're out of luck.
As Chater said, bidding has to change when you snipe, you olny get one chance, so it's got to be your max.
As far as Rick goes - I agree with Chatter - he's one of the great resources on this forum. We all have our pet peeves, and Proxy Bidders is one of Rick's. I happen to agree with Rick on Proxy Bidders, although, maybe not as passionately.
Re: knowing about all existing snipes, see my May 6 response to Rick's question. I do not want to know about all existing snipes. My concern has always been limited to AS and whether AS had such an existing snipe alert. So far I have not received any official answer to that query, but Steve in his erudite reply said there probably is none.
Unlike others who may be concerned with nothing else than getting the merchandise, I am not obsessed with winning. I ask about AS' policy on existing snipes, not because I want to win, but because I wanted to find out if AS felt it had a responsibility to its members to disclose an existing higher snipe. Apparently, it does not feel that way. Also, any discussion I may have given on max bids was only to elucidate some other ancilliary point--but I do appreciate all your inputs.
As for Chatter's and "the other Steve's" defense in behalf of Rick, I take them all under advisement.
CH
[This message was edited by clarkhawkins on May 07, 2003 at 08:58 PM.]
[This message was edited by clarkhawkins on May 07, 2003 at 09:01 PM.]
Unlike others who may be concerned with nothing else than getting the merchandise, I am not obsessed with winning. I ask about AS' policy on existing snipes, not because I want to win, but because I wanted to find out if AS felt it had a responsibility to its members to disclose an existing higher snipe. Apparently, it does not feel that way. Also, any discussion I may have given on max bids was only to elucidate some other ancilliary point--but I do appreciate all your inputs.
As for Chatter's and "the other Steve's" defense in behalf of Rick, I take them all under advisement.
CH
[This message was edited by clarkhawkins on May 07, 2003 at 08:58 PM.]
[This message was edited by clarkhawkins on May 07, 2003 at 09:01 PM.]
To anyone who cares;
IMO the following two statements were instrumental in causing this thread to unravel:
”Shouldn't there be honor among snipers and let he or she who placed the earlier snipe have priority?” (Clark’s 2nd post - 10:34 AM)
“If AS knows that there is another snipe on the same item for a higher amount, shouldn't it let me know, so I can increase my own bid, if I wanted to?” (Clark’s 3rd post - 3:13 PM)
What happened to “honor” between 10:34 AM and 3:13 PM?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
To Chatter and (The other) Steve;
Firstly, thanks for your support! We’ve all experienced having our well-intentioned assistance get perverted into something else. When it happens, it’s reassuring to know that others don’t view us as outcasts.
Sometimes it seems like a post was accidentally left on the wrong topic. I’m baffled as to how it can get from “Point Plus” to “Point Negative”.
Secondly, I hope to clear up some of the confusion, or at least propose my side of this:
In my 1st post, I thought I was dealing with the old question of what would happen if 2 members placed a snipe on the same auction? I gave Clark the “standard” answer; discussed using 8-second (and more on Sunday) lead times; even left “Hope you enjoy AS, come back again”. Same old; same old.
In my 2nd post and 3rd post on this topic, I found myself responding to this idea that somehow it would be honorable to let an earlier snipe have priority. On the surface it seemed bizarre, but what the heck? I used the longest “fuse” I could find to address this “idea”. I addressed several of his statements; all in a friendly manner. In response to his statement that it would somehow be honorable to respect a prior snipe, I said in a tongue-in-cheek style, “I'll let you have the honor; I want the merchandise.” I then ended the post with, “I don't think I've resolved this last issue for you, so hopefully someone else will give you a better explanation.”
A few hours later, in Clark’s next post, he was no longer discussing the honor of snipers respecting earlier snipes (placing no snipe). Clark was now discussing his ability to increase his snipe (placing a larger snipe). As of today, I’m still unsure as to which of these two conflicting opinions Clark wanted to pursue (no snipe vs. larger snipe), or did he do an about-face? Perhaps he didn’t have a specific thesis and intended this to be a rhetorical discussion?
You both know it’s harder to hit a moving target. Well, it’s also harder to hit a moving premise. The fuse was getting shorter, but I didn’t go postal. In my 4th post of that same day for this topic, I now try to address his most recent issue. I write many sincere responses and some playful bantering. I leave a “razz” and a “grin”. The next morning I awake to see the following response from Clark: “I think your first reply said all I need to know about you. All you want is the merchandise. Your reply has several non sequiturs and falacious (sic) arguments in them. But I will not bother to point them out or even dignify them with an answer.” (4th post – 5/6 9:19 PM)
Clark quickly added this little tidbit, “While this first foray in the forum may not have gone as smooth as I may have expected, it at least revealed the character of some people in this forum.” (5th post – 5/6 9:44 PM)
Then you (Chatter) provide this in my defense, “We can assure you that he (Rick) is NOT lacking in integrity in any way, and you really ought not to jump to any premature conclusion.”
Then you (“The other Steve”) said, “As far as Rick goes - I agree with Chatter - he's one of the great resources on this forum.”
But, the hits keep on coming, “Unlike others who may be concerned with nothing else than getting the merchandise, I am not obsessed with winning.” (7th post – 5/7 8:49 PM)
(Clark is from Mars and Rick is from Venus?)
Clark has said he wants AS to tell him about a higher snipe “not because I want to win” (7th post – 5/7 8:49 PM), yet Clark also states that he would increase his snipe? (3rd post – 5/6 3:13 PM; 5th post – 5/6 9:44 PM) Would he increase his snipe because he wanted to “lose”?
Clark has questioned my character because I wouldn’t “honor” an earlier snipe if AS provided this info? Yet twice Clark admits he would do the same thing?
It appears to me that Clark’s statements about my character have created a smoke screen allowing his conflicting statements to be buried. My posts were not a discussion on sniping morality or proxy bidders (although, as you both know, and pointed out, are usually time bombs for me). I was sincerely trying to respond favorably to Clark’s “issues”. I had a difficult time keeping up with the mental redirection caused by Clark’s opposing statements. I’m still not sure if Clark ever had a specific issue or question, or was just extemporizing.
The following is one of my favorites: “… As for Chatter's and ‘the other Steve's’ defense in behalf of Rick, I take them all under advisement.” (7th post – 5/7 8:49 PM) – “I take them all under advisement”??? It sounds like Clark has become a self-appointed judge presiding over a trial of my character? I didn’t expect Clark to thank me for the time I’ve spent addressing his antithetical statements, but his implication seems ironic. Clark’s opinion of me is of no importance. Your opinion IS important!
Perhaps I should have been even more patient? Perhaps I wasn’t patient at all? But this hasn’t changed my opinion about AS or this forum.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
To Clark;
“My concern has always been limited to AS and whether AS had such an existing snipe alert.” (7th post – 5/7 8:49 PM) – Nope.
IMO the following two statements were instrumental in causing this thread to unravel:
”Shouldn't there be honor among snipers and let he or she who placed the earlier snipe have priority?” (Clark’s 2nd post - 10:34 AM)
“If AS knows that there is another snipe on the same item for a higher amount, shouldn't it let me know, so I can increase my own bid, if I wanted to?” (Clark’s 3rd post - 3:13 PM)
What happened to “honor” between 10:34 AM and 3:13 PM?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
To Chatter and (The other) Steve;
Firstly, thanks for your support! We’ve all experienced having our well-intentioned assistance get perverted into something else. When it happens, it’s reassuring to know that others don’t view us as outcasts.
Sometimes it seems like a post was accidentally left on the wrong topic. I’m baffled as to how it can get from “Point Plus” to “Point Negative”.
Secondly, I hope to clear up some of the confusion, or at least propose my side of this:
In my 1st post, I thought I was dealing with the old question of what would happen if 2 members placed a snipe on the same auction? I gave Clark the “standard” answer; discussed using 8-second (and more on Sunday) lead times; even left “Hope you enjoy AS, come back again”. Same old; same old.
In my 2nd post and 3rd post on this topic, I found myself responding to this idea that somehow it would be honorable to let an earlier snipe have priority. On the surface it seemed bizarre, but what the heck? I used the longest “fuse” I could find to address this “idea”. I addressed several of his statements; all in a friendly manner. In response to his statement that it would somehow be honorable to respect a prior snipe, I said in a tongue-in-cheek style, “I'll let you have the honor; I want the merchandise.” I then ended the post with, “I don't think I've resolved this last issue for you, so hopefully someone else will give you a better explanation.”
A few hours later, in Clark’s next post, he was no longer discussing the honor of snipers respecting earlier snipes (placing no snipe). Clark was now discussing his ability to increase his snipe (placing a larger snipe). As of today, I’m still unsure as to which of these two conflicting opinions Clark wanted to pursue (no snipe vs. larger snipe), or did he do an about-face? Perhaps he didn’t have a specific thesis and intended this to be a rhetorical discussion?
You both know it’s harder to hit a moving target. Well, it’s also harder to hit a moving premise. The fuse was getting shorter, but I didn’t go postal. In my 4th post of that same day for this topic, I now try to address his most recent issue. I write many sincere responses and some playful bantering. I leave a “razz” and a “grin”. The next morning I awake to see the following response from Clark: “I think your first reply said all I need to know about you. All you want is the merchandise. Your reply has several non sequiturs and falacious (sic) arguments in them. But I will not bother to point them out or even dignify them with an answer.” (4th post – 5/6 9:19 PM)
Clark quickly added this little tidbit, “While this first foray in the forum may not have gone as smooth as I may have expected, it at least revealed the character of some people in this forum.” (5th post – 5/6 9:44 PM)
Then you (Chatter) provide this in my defense, “We can assure you that he (Rick) is NOT lacking in integrity in any way, and you really ought not to jump to any premature conclusion.”
Then you (“The other Steve”) said, “As far as Rick goes - I agree with Chatter - he's one of the great resources on this forum.”
But, the hits keep on coming, “Unlike others who may be concerned with nothing else than getting the merchandise, I am not obsessed with winning.” (7th post – 5/7 8:49 PM)
(Clark is from Mars and Rick is from Venus?)
Clark has said he wants AS to tell him about a higher snipe “not because I want to win” (7th post – 5/7 8:49 PM), yet Clark also states that he would increase his snipe? (3rd post – 5/6 3:13 PM; 5th post – 5/6 9:44 PM) Would he increase his snipe because he wanted to “lose”?
Clark has questioned my character because I wouldn’t “honor” an earlier snipe if AS provided this info? Yet twice Clark admits he would do the same thing?
It appears to me that Clark’s statements about my character have created a smoke screen allowing his conflicting statements to be buried. My posts were not a discussion on sniping morality or proxy bidders (although, as you both know, and pointed out, are usually time bombs for me). I was sincerely trying to respond favorably to Clark’s “issues”. I had a difficult time keeping up with the mental redirection caused by Clark’s opposing statements. I’m still not sure if Clark ever had a specific issue or question, or was just extemporizing.
The following is one of my favorites: “… As for Chatter's and ‘the other Steve's’ defense in behalf of Rick, I take them all under advisement.” (7th post – 5/7 8:49 PM) – “I take them all under advisement”??? It sounds like Clark has become a self-appointed judge presiding over a trial of my character? I didn’t expect Clark to thank me for the time I’ve spent addressing his antithetical statements, but his implication seems ironic. Clark’s opinion of me is of no importance. Your opinion IS important!
Perhaps I should have been even more patient? Perhaps I wasn’t patient at all? But this hasn’t changed my opinion about AS or this forum.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
To Clark;
“My concern has always been limited to AS and whether AS had such an existing snipe alert.” (7th post – 5/7 8:49 PM) – Nope.