Why doesn't ebay offer sniping?

They love the wars! More bids, more profit.

There is probably no profit in them offering this, and they are doing quite nicely without, anyhow!

It's a rather easy answer to say that ebay simply loves bidding wars. To me, anyway, it is obvious only that ebay would, all else being equal, dislike a sniping function to be available to the bidders in each particular case in which there is a bidding war. However, I'm thinking in terms of the enterprise as a whole, not isolated cases in which there is in fact a bidding war. Like I said, it's not clear to me that the more people learn of and resort to sniping, the less the final auction prices in the aggregate for all items as a whole, or the less ebay's profits overall. Remember that people who know in the first place what the point of sniping is would have AS or some other sniper service to resort to anyway. Even if there were a concern that sniping could suppress bidding (which isn't clear to me, speaking in the aggregate), ebay can be discreet about its own snipe function if it chooses, not actively advertise it, etc. Also, for example, eventually a snipe function could result in a greater number of bidding participants. And so on. If you think about it, I think it's a bit more complex than ebay just preferring a bidding war (all else being equal--but all else is not necessarily equal).

So again, it is not clear to me that ebay would not gain substantially from adding a sniping function, even regardless of whether not they could earn anything in the way of fees from such a function. And adding the function can't be a big deal for a company with ebay's resources.

Hmm, well considering the million and millions they make, guess they don't need our advice.

Yes, that's for sure. I got curious because, among every class of items I shop for on ebay (books, toys, posters) sniping is very common, as a wild guess I'd think that, what, maybe 10~20% of ebayers resort to manual or automatic sniping (or maybe 30% at least watch/bid within the last couple of hours or so?) at least some of the time; I'm sure that AS make a good profit (small by comparison to ebay, but anyway a high profit margin business model). If ebay added a good sniping function, even for a fee slightly higher than AS's, I would immediately jump ship, I'm sure a lot of people would. To me it would seem like almost a free lunch for ebay.

I'm not sure how many people would use it if offered, but I'm sure more would than do now. I'd love to see it, but won't hold my breath. The arguments in the ebay Cafe over sniping are intense, many bidders truly despise snipers. However, almost every time one of them complains in the forum, they are flamed out vehemantly. It seems the people most active in the ebay forums (dare I suggest they are probably the most serious about ebaying?) by a vast majority favor sniping, do it, and have many arguments in favor of it to directly discredit every point against it. I think most bidders by far don't snipe though; I've been there almost five years with over 180 transactions, and can count on one hand the times I've been out-sniped. I've been manually sniping from day one, and only lose if my snipe isn't high enough to beat the high bidder's proxy. That being said, I feel ebay has already instituted the ultimate bidding system, and it is best for everyone: proxy bidding. I'd say most members don't understand it, and that's why they hate snipers. Ignorance, it seems, is not always bliss- in this case it's anger without foundation. I wouldn't be surprised if ebay developed a sniping feature though; when something is used enough they generally develope their own or buy it out (i.e. People were linking to online stores, so ebay created storefronts; people wanted invoices, they developed Checkout; Paypal got popular, they bought it and integrated it). So, if one sniping service breaks out as truly reliable and superior to the others and becomes a household name in the ebay community, I'm sure ebay will either buy them out, or offer their own. Just my $.02

quote:

Originally posted by petronius:
To me it would seem like almost a free lunch for ebay.

I believe the only revenue generated by ebay comes from fees charged to “sellers”. To implement a system to charge “buyers” (ANY buyer) might not be as free of a lunch as it would appear. Additionally, just the concept of charging to bid (snipe) might not go over too well with the masses. Then there are the potential complaints about snipes not going in (bid/increment too low), or people claiming they never gave ebay a snipe (someone/many could pretend their account was hacked). Many of the problems that are brought up on this forum would apply and have to be handled by ebay.

Then there are the legal considerations. I doubt ebay takes a fart without getting advice from an army of lawyers (or at least consults with environmental groups). Deep pockets tend to bring out the worst in some people – especially in the States.

quote:

Originally posted by petronius:
ebay can be discreet about its own snipe function if it chooses, not actively advertise it, etc.

Not sure that’s much of a business plan. I don’t think I’d want to purpose to Meg Whitman that ebay spend the resources to implement something that won’t be used that much, and won’t be encouraged to be used.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, I think it takes a unique person to be a sniper. I think most bidders are somewhat indecisive, in that they don’t know how much they are willing to pay (they allow the dynamics of the other bidders to assist/control them, and deal better with smaller, incremental increases in the auction price), and they get a certain entertainment value just out of bidding and being a part of the process, and they don’t have the patience to wait 7 days to see if they will even appear in the bid history. I doubt many people would convert to sniping, mainly because currently the snipers are in the minority, and ebay has been around long enough for the majority of users to have gotten hip to the fact that proxy bidding, although may be fun, can be an expense source of entertainment.

Proxy bidders bid; snipe bidders acquire.



P. S. Does anyone have change for a nickel?

quote:

Originally posted by Smart:
If eBay were to encourage sniping, they'd effectively collect bids from everyone but only reveal them at the auction end. After a while everyone would wise up and no-one would proxy bid. We'd end up with a 'sealed bid' system (which I've mentioned once before), where all bidders would have to bid their true maximums and final sale prices would rise (sellers take note). I think eBay should openly promote that (snipe only auctions) to sellers rather than buyers.

Hey, thanks for this input. This is exactly what I was hoping someone could speak to--the possibility of more convenient, hence more widespread, sniping leading to higher sale prices, hence greater ebay profit. (Possible charges to bidders is just a side point.)

quote:

With too many snipers the bargains would go so 'shh' let's just keep it our secret.

Amen to that. I am going to shut my trap on this kind of topic from now on....

quote:

Originally posted by JBear427:
I'd say most members don't understand it, and that's why they hate snipers. Ignorance, it seems, is not always bliss- in this case it's anger without foundation.

Yes. One last thing: In fact I noticed that on a few occasions when I've sniped, people I beat seem to take active revenge (either that or I am getting paranoid). For example, I happened to outbid, with a snipe, an early bidder from whom I'd bought an item (he also sells) around the same time--he never left feedback for me even after I left the positive FB for him and also did him a favor on the postage charge. (Suspicious, I checked and yes he did leave FB for all his other buyers that month.) Ah... maybe it is just paranoia....

How would they know you had sniped?

Don't worry, though - Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you.

Oh, he was winning the item the whole time until the end. He was one of those guys who places an early bid, then--as if on his guard against snipers--places a somewhat higher bid towards the end (around an hour before the end), and I nipped it with 8 secs to go. There'd only been one other bidder, whom he'd topped early on. Course he wouldn't know whether I'd sniped manually or by automatic pre-arranged snipe, but I think the common distaste for sniping applies to both methods.

Another time, I beat a bidder with a snipe on several items, who happened to be a guy I was also buying the same kind of stuff from, through his own website. He never responded any more to my emails about other stuff he was selling.... Again, probably paranoia...

Generally, in the class of items I bid for, I'm certain that these are savvy guys (they are hardened ebayers and "usual suspects" on these items, some have their own collector's websites) who understand sniping, and some of them do it occasionally. What always puzzles me is they don't use sniping more often, or not exclusively. Several guys will usually place an early bid, then snipe in addition. I wonder if there's some sort of ethic, among this group of collectors, that sniping is cheating or cutting in line or somehow not nice, unless you first place an early bid to sort of signal your interest, as if this were dictated by politeness as fair warning to other possible bidders, something like that....though I spose there must be a simpler explanation for this strategy, irrational as it seems. I doubt it's the trivial cost of AS sniping.

Agreed. This is as I was saying, many bidders despise us, regardless of how we go about sniping. It seems we are ruining their fun, as if ebay is a game not a business place. The truth is, they don't understand the system, and if they used proxy bidding properly, sniping would be ineffective. Anyone who places more than one bid didn't really proxy the first time. Look at proxy in any other environment- proxy voting, proxy fights, etc- the idea is that you deal your winning blow, your highest collective, as an absentee assuming you yourself cannot be there to participate in the outcome. Then they sit at the computer and bid on their own behalf and hope they get it for less, making emotional decisions on the fly. It's really immature, actually. ebay's proxy bidding is really not much different than AS, except in as much as AS doesn't take immediate action on our behalf when confronted. If everyone truly bid their proxy- the most they are willing to pay- it wouldn't matter when they bid, and sniping would be pointless. I'm frustrated with their stupidity, but as someone also said- lets keep it that way, so we don't lose our edge

Q. Why doesn't eBay implement a Sniping feature?

A. That's an easy question to answer. Because they already have one.

They call it "Proxy Bidding". If a person wants to win the auction without a bidding war, they bid the highest amount they are willing to pay the first time. Then they can walk away knowing that if they get outbid, then the other person was clearly willing to pay more than them. If they win the auction, then they only pay the minimum amount necessary over the next-highest bid.

What this means for Snipers: If you come in at the last second and the bid is sitting at $50, and you snipe with a bid of $55, you may still lose, because the proxy bid may be set at $60 or $70, or even $10,000.

eBay's proxy bidding system will always outbid any sniper who does not outbid the proxy amount. In that sense it is the ultimate sniping program.

Oh, and this isn't a new feature. It's been around for years and years. I started using eBay in 2000 and it was part of the system then.

Hi me new...
Well not that new... anyways if a proxy bid or a snipe bid is say £1000 and the item is at £100, what if you have a proxy bid of £1000 and someone else who is as desperate as you to get it ;-) has a snipe or proxy of the same - could get expensive qui, non? coz e-bay would keep on whacking the bids on until it reaches the point of first silly bid wins.... eeeer no... anyway everyone would be sniping then as well... no leave this one alone... just hope e-bay doesnt read these posts :-(
Carolyn

quote:

Originally posted by Fact-giver:
Q. Why doesn't eBay implement a Sniping feature?

A. That's an easy question to answer. Because they already have one.

They call it "Proxy Bidding".

You are confused with an over-generalization. Proxy bidding IS NOT sniping. Sniping is waiting until the last minute to place a bid. Proxy bidding is exactly the opposite, bidding immediately, and continuing to bid immediately with every new bid until the proxy limit is reached. This could not be less like sniping. No one has a choice on ebay about using the proxy system, they only have a choice in how effectively they use it. You can use it to snipe, and if you read the other bidders correctly, you'll be more likely to win at a lower price than you may have otherwise. That doesn't make proxy bidding sniping by any stretch of the imagination- it only makes sniping with it an option. The question was why doen't ebay offer a service like AS, which they DO NOT have and probably never will.

The definition of sniping, as I understand it, in relation to eBay auctions and bidding is this:

"Waiting until the last second to place a bid which you hope will be higher than the proxy bid placed by the current high-bidder."

Based on that definition, the proxy system is essentially a sniping program which out-snipes the manual sniper, if the sniper's bid is not higher than the proxy bid. If your definition of sniping is different, than mine, I apologize for the confusion.

Proxy bidding works fine in this sense, and there doesn't seem to be any reason for eBay to offer a sniping program in addition to proxy bidding. I'm not familiar with AuctionSniper or how it works, but I imagine it is similar. You tell the program what to bid and when to bid, and then the program waits till the last second to place that bid for you.

Sure, if the current high-bidder hasn't bothered to effectively use the proxy system, but has been watching carefully, just in case a bidding war should develop, then you're going to have the upper hand. So as you mentioned before, anybody who uses the proxy system effectively makes sniping pointless.

In answer to Cordy's question, if there is a proxy bid for £1000 (placed by Frank S.) and the auction is currently sitting at £100, and another person (Mary B.) or snipe program comes along at the last second and bids £1000, then the win would belong to the first person to have bid £1000 (Frank S.). A kind of 'first-come, first-served' rule.

Of course if Mary B. had placed a snipe bid of £1000.01, then she would have been the winner, even though £0.01 is lower than the minimum allowable bid over £1000. The "minimum bid" rule only applies to the current visible high bid (in this case it was £100).

Regardless of whose definition is used, your own included, proxy bidding is not a sniping system. It doesn't out snipe anyone just because they didn't bid high enough. The commitment to spend the proxy amount was already made, whether you end up paying your highest bid or not. I can see how you came to that conclusion, but it's about as accurate as saying a car is a bed because you can sleep in it.

Ok, it's not a sniping system. It's as effective as, if not more effective than, a sniping program for eBay's purposes: Allowing people to say how much they are willing to pay, then walk away from their computer.

Also, if it were a sniping system, I suppose they'd call it a sniping system.

My point was simply that there is no need for eBay to implement a program that is essentially a less effective tool than the one they already have, or that would work in conflict with the one already in place.

Also, from a financial point of view, bidding wars may be in eBay's best interest, as the emotions involved in a bidding war may result in a higher-than-expected winning bid. I know from my own experience using the proxy system. I thought $25 was the most I'd pay for something, and proxied it. Then when I was outbid, I realized I was willing to pay more and more, until I finally had to conclude that I'm a sucker and Buy It Now is better for my wallet.

That's all pretty much my take on it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fact-giver:
Ok, it's not a sniping system. It's as effective as, if not more effective than, a sniping program for eBay's purposes: Allowing people to say how much they are willing to pay, then walk away from their computer.

I think you fail to grasp the essential point. In a sense, the two options (placing a bid early and relying on proxy bidding, versus "sniping" either automatically or manually at the last minute) can tend to arrive at a similar result--but ONLY in a world where there are no nibblers (as well as no people checking up on other ebayers' bids, and other assumptions, but set them aside). Yet there ARE nibblers, an endless supply of them. Given this, it is simply foolish to place a bid earlier as opposed to later, regardless of the proxy bidding feature. Your conclusions only make sense in an idealized world where all or most ebayers can be assumed to have pre-conceived, fixed valuations and preferences and act based purely on them. They don't.

Basically I don't think you have a clear idea of what you are talking about. You are commenting on "sniping" without even understanding WHY PEOPLE WOULD USE a service like Auctionsniper. You might have assumed there is some rational reason for using thIs AS service, which is cheap but not costless.

Eh... I think he's got it. He's not saying sniping isn't as effective for us, but that bidding wars are better for ebay, fiscally. We like ebay's fixed auction end time because we can catch other bidders with their pants down, but ebay (and sellers, I'd think) like bidders who bid high, bid often, and essentially don't understand the system. They make more money off them than us.

Hi all,

I find this topic fascinating. Ebay will never implement a snipe feature for the exact same reason that I ALWAYS snipe auctions--the final purchase price is consistently much lower. Ebay charges sellers a listing fee as well as a percentage of the final purchase price, so their profits drop right along with the final price.

To illustrate why the final purchase price is lower, you have to consider the ways people bid, which I learned after much experience. The first situation is obvious: The final purchase price is often driven up by bidding wars, by which I mean I bid $5, Joe bids $6, I come back and bid $7, Joe bids $8, and we trade bids back and forth like that. Sniping would help you win in this situation because it does not give the other person a chance to come back and outbid you.

BUT--another very common situation is the serial bidder. Say I bid $20 for an item that starts at $5. Joe comes along and bids $6. I still have the high bid, so he bids $7. He keeps bidding this way, increasing his bid a little at a time, until he discovers my maximum bid of $20 (I guess he does this because he doesn't want to pay a penny more for the item than he has to--he wants to know exactly what my highest bid was, and bid just enough to be in the high position). I could come back and outbid him, because I know he is probably only one increment over me, but I have now paid over $20 for the item, much more than I probably had to. If you are ever in an auction where you see 8 or 9 bids, but only two bidders, chances are this is exactly what happened. Now to look at this situation with a snipe on my part: I place my snipe of $20, Joe comes in and bids $5, the opening bid, and is happy because he is the high bidder, so he doesn't bid again. I come in at the last second with my bid, and I win the auction for $5.25 or $5.50 or whatever (I can't remember the bid increments right now). THIS, to me is the real benefit of sniping--I have seen this happen again and again, and it was driving me crazy.

After years of bidding, I know that this is the case--that sniping helps me win auctions for a much lower price--and I thought that was pretty much the benefit of sniping. But the whole discussion makes me wonder, why else would anyone snipe an auction? Just for the thrill of bidding at the last second?

Angus