Sara B. I really appreciate your reply, I think this has thrown quite a few people for a curve it certainly has me. I have put a couple of your comments above in bold because they were really helpful in clarification and I believe you are correct and now believe everything did work correctly. Sara you were able to make this clear so I would like you to clarify another point so that I really understand how the snipe software & servers work inconjunction with ebay's system.quote:Originally posted by Sniper Sara B.:
Everything worked correctly here.
The bid was:
$1250
then you bid $1301.02 and eBay moved you to the high bidder, with your bid being 1 increment above the 1250, which is $1275. So there you sat, the winner at $1275. For 1 second you were the winner. Then the other bid came in they bid more than you. By at least an increment. They don't have to beat you by an increment. They only have to outbid you by one to have their bid placed. That's the way eBay works.
Thus their max bid was truely $1305. Otherwise eBay would have forced their bid to be an increment higher than yours which would have been $1326.02. That's how I can tell that the winners true max was $1305.
In short, you don't have to win by a bid increment, you only have to bid an increment higher to have your bid placed. that means if you bid say an increment + 1 cent more, you can possibly win by 1 cent even if your bid comes last. As long as your bid is higher than the other persons.
eBay worked correctly, and AuctionSniper worked correctly. No blame to anyone. It's a tricky one. The step eBay doesn't show is where you were temporarily the high bidder at $1275. I'm not sure if they used to do that and stopped or what.
I doubt the eBay reps know that other bidders max was $1326. That makes no sense if the winner won for $1305. You should tell them that the buyer told you their max was $1776 and I bet they change their story and start telling you the bidders max was $1776. Why would they disclose another customers max bid to you? That doesn't seem right.
If we use my same auction yet all the bids were placed manually lets see if I understand lets also assume we have minutes left and not seconds:
1)My manual bid would raise the price from $1250 to 1275 per the incremental bid requirement of $25
2)Another person places the bid (for agreement sake lets say there max is $1305) there bid would place at $1300.
3)Now lets assume the very next second snipe software attempts to place a bid (as the bidder is not aware of the current bid of $1300) for $1305, the bid would not be placed because the next incremental bid of $25 had not been met for a total of $1325. Am I correct?
Ok lets move to the last scenario which is exactly what happened in my auction and its all done by the sniping software.
1)My bid is placed at $1275 with a max of $1301.02
2)The very next second another bidder places his max bid of $1305, so he exceeds my bid by the $25 and since its software/servers doing all this does it take the bid to $1300 and because it software and not manual bidding does it then kind of place the second bid to the bidders max of $1305? What if his bid would have been $1776 what stops ebay or AS from rebidding higher to $1776 or does it just stop at the next increment of $1325?
If the winning bidder had placed a manual max bid of $1305 it would still result in his bid automatically going to $1305? And if his maximum manual bid was $1776 then it would stop at the next incremental bid of $1325?
Sara B. In reference to your comment, "Why would they disclose another customers max bid to you? That doesn't seem right." It may not seem right , but that was what was done and considering it was a strange circumstance that is probably why it was done and of course it wasn't done before the end of the auction as that would have been wrong and impossible since the winner hadn't placed any bid previously. Here is an excerpt from the live chat log:
10:36:03 PM You I would like you to look at auction # XXXXXXXX I placed the maximum bid of $1301.02 and I was the high bidder for a second literally then the very next second a guy placed a higher bid and won the auction in the last 6 seconds with a bid of $1305 which was winning by less than $4, but at this price level the next highest bid is in $25 increments – so he would have had to place a bid of $1326.02, so he absolutely should not have been able to win the auction. 10:36:28 PM Cristian A. I'm glad to help you with bidding/buying concern.
10:37:15 PM Cristian A. May I please know if it is the XXXXXXXX item?
10:37:32 PM You Yes. 10:38:07 PM Cristian A. Please give me a moment to look into that item.
10:38:46 PM You Ok, thankyou. 10:40:10 PM Cristian A. The $1326.00 is the maximum bid of that member.
10:41:10 PM You If he would have bid earlier or the very same second he should win, but as it stands he bid later -even though only one second it was in $25 increments and that would have been 1326.02 , $1326 would not have been high enough, 10:44:12 PM Cristian A. We apologize for any confusion. In some cases, you can be outbid by less than a full bid increment.
10:45:19 PM You Do you not agree that it should have taken an additional $25 over my bid to win, as I assure you if he would have bid manually less than $25 the system wouldnt have allowed him to place the bid, correct? 10:46:08 PM Cristian A. Let me explain to you further.
10:46:27 PM Cristian A. Let's say you're the first bidder and you place a maximum bid of $20.00. The bidding system will automatically bid on your behalf up to $20.00 against other bidders. When a second bidder places a maximum bid of $9.00, your bid will automatically be raised to $9.50. When a third bidder bids $20.01, he or she becomes the high bidder because your maximum bid is only $20.00.
10:47:32 PM Cristian A. How can this happen? It seems that the third bidder should be required to bid in 50-cent increments, which would be $20.50. But not in this case, because the third bidder needs only to exceed the next allowed bid amount of $10.00 ($9.50 plus $0.50). Since $20.01 is more than $10.00, he or she satisfies the bid requirement.
10:47:59 PM Cristian A. The increment of $25.00 will not take effect.
10:48:11 PM Cristian A. That is in your case.
10:49:07 PM You I really dont understand. This is a foul up though whether sniping or manually it would have need to exceed my bid at this price point by $25 as I was the earlier bidder. 10:49:58 PM Cristian A. There are cases when bid sniping may occurs on that particular item.
10:50:37 PM Cristian A. Here, if that member place a maximum bid, the system will not shown the amount to other bidder.
10:51:09 PM Cristian A. Unless there is a member who place a bid higher that on his maximum bid.
10:51:37 PM Cristian A. In your case, that member placed a bid of $1305.00 before you.
10:52:49 PM Cristian A. Or that member used the Bid Sniping.
10:53:44 PM You Look at the bid time stamp the other bidder placed the bid one second later than mine and exceeded my bid by only $3.98 and if it would have gone the full $25 it still wasnt high enough as that would have been 1326.02, but as you pointed out the max was $1326 either way it shouldnt have happened. 10:56:38 PM Cristian A. In that case, you were out bid by less than the increment.
10:57:22 PM You Exactly and it shouldnt have happened. 10:57:59 PM You That has been my point from the beginning. 10:58:33 PM Cristian A. Even that bidder required a $25.00, and it would the be $1326.02.
10:59:22 PM Cristian A. In your case it is different.
10:59:24 PM You Right again, that has been my point all along. 11:00:24 PM Cristian A. That bidder needs only to outbid the current bid not your bid.
11:00:46 PM Cristian A. Let me explain to you further.
11:01:48 PM You Well weve just went back to the fog bank again, how is it possible? It would have needed to exceed my bid by $25 or this bidder plays by different rules.... 11:02:19 PM Cristian A. The first bid is US $1,250.00, and you have placed a bid of US $1,301.02.
11:02:50 PM You Continue... 11:03:44 PM Cristian A. The current bid will be $1250.00 + $25.00, therefore it is $1300.00 is the current bid now.
11:04:54 PM Cristian A. Since the $1305.00 is bigger that $1300.00, the system satisfies his bid.
11:04:57 PM You Which I still held at $1301.02 11:05:52 PM Cristian A. The system will based on the current bid.
11:06:45 PM You Then why wouldnt the system have taken $1301.03 all he would need to be me by is 1 cent, why did it arbitrally exceed my bid by $3.98 at $1305? 11:06:48 PM Cristian A. That system is called Outbid by Less than the Bid Increment.
11:08:07 PM You Is this somewhere in Ebay policy? 11:10:15 PM You When does it apply on only certain occasions when it decides to? How can you expect people to know what to bid when the rules change, I have never heard of this and I assure if the bid was manual this could not have happened. 11:11:03 PM Cristian A. The bid of the winning bidder was based on the first bid, not on your bid.
11:11:25 PM Cristian A. The fourth bidder, in case it has, the current bid will be based on your amount.
11:11:44 PM You I'll tell you what I think happened is somehow the snipe servers didnt recognize my high as there was only one second between bids. 11:11:53 PM Cristian A. We apologize for any confusion. In some cases, you can be outbid by less than a full bid increment.
11:12:32 PM Cristian A. Yes, it might be possible also the bid sniping.
11:12:50 PM You I appreciate your time...
Continues with the rep providing a link for me to contact Ebay Safety & Trust.
The following day I contacted ebay live chat and they reaffirmed the max. bid of $1326, but the rep wouldnt give up the info easily so I told her what I was told the following evening of the max bid of $1326 and if that was correct and finally she confirmed this. If I'm going to be objective I told her the amount and she confirmed that; she didnt just tell me the amount on her own so it is still inconclusive if $1326 is the maximum bid.